To use your words, oh please. I guess you haven’t followed the costs of EVs.
Tell me ONE EV that can be sold in meaningful numbers without a govt. Subsidy, tax credits or incentives. Have you been sleeping ? Zzzzzzzzz You actually think that any Leafs or any other other EV or plug in hybrid would sell many cars for their asking price…hello, anyone at home ? Maybe you have never shopped for one ?
Even then they and hybrids are less then 1% of the total sales of cars. If it is going to make an impact, it will cost a lot more, if 25% of cars sold are to be EVs …you guys can add ? If you think that electric vehicles can be profit makers without govt. help, it’s you who have not priced them and know little about private enterprise.
You are on some conservative vs liberal rant (yada,yada, yada) , in your words that has noting to do with facts…Many countries are doing it yet the scale is too small here to make a significant difference. A Leaf gets $7500 I tax credit and in some states, total incentives can go as high as $12000. Facts that have nothing to do with being a liberal and everything to do with selling these cars. To deny it is going on and is necessary to expand sales further is to deny they even exist.
Private industry DOES NOTHING they cannot make a profit on. They contribute little to public transportation, infrastructure etc and ELECTRIC vehicles without public monies.
@meanjoe75fan And this is from a conservative publications !!!
It’s a fact. It will and does take public funds to make electric cars viable and available to the public at large ! The more you want, the more it will cost !
Hybrids are over 3% of the market, and their subsidies are mostly gone. I think major subsidies for EVs are a mistake, most areas would be just as well served with hybrids in terms of CO2 emissions. You can make a lot more hybrids for the money. Just because something needs huge subsidies to sell doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.
2013 share was 3.19%:
Whether you agree or disagree with electric cars and plug in hybrids which are <1% of new car sales, should be on the market with govt. Subsidies and incentives, they will not sell without them. Why ? Because they are not profit makers for auto companies with out public monies. Toyota is committed to hybrid technology and not EVs. Why ? Because they still have a gas engine, they still require parts and service with regular maintenance.
Motor Trend seems to be having much better luck, with only one electric motor replacement, the service guys didn’t like the sounds it was making so replaced under warranty. No further mention so far
Well not Russia thats for sure but there are other Socialist countries that actually provide you with a return when they take half your money(seriously couldnt you put your half of the Feds dole to better use? case in point healthcare and another thing does everybody need 3 flatscreens,a hunting camp and 3 vehicles?) The Russian guy I was talking about was just an example,some church or the other brought His family over here to share all Americas wealth and high paying jobs I suppose(reckon we are supposed to feel guilty if we used to be fairly well off)the Russian cars seem to suck,but doesnt seem to be anything wrong with theur military equipment
I just keep marveling at my 4500$ stint in a decripit MRI machine was in their about half an hour for a T scan and neck MRI,was in so much pain and the techs were so unprofessionaI I couldnt get the T-scan(it just confirmed the stenosis anyway) and you know wnat it would take me 9wks to pay that bill if my provider hadnt covered most of it,now I’m looking at a 500$ biill foe anylizing 2 small vails of blood the tech messed up and didnt get enough to check my iron level,but they were able to confirm my borderline anemia-cholesterol was better though(without statin drugs thank you) so it goes am not worried about cars too much lately-Kevin-Go Tesla
Could someone explain that $7500 tax credit? Is it a $7500 refund on your taxes or does it just lower your taxes as if you earned $7500 less the year you bought the EV? What about people who’s total tax liability is less than $7500?
It’s a tax credit, which is deducted 100% from taxes owed, I think. For somebody paying less than $7500 in taxes for a year, I’d guess the remainder carries over.
It’s exactly what it says and applies to just one fiscal year for most credits. If your tax liability is in sufficient to enjoy the full credit, you loose out. That’s the way credits I have taken advantage of in the past have worked. You get the credit in the form of a refund on taxes already paid if the car purchase is shown during your income tax filing. Regardless, it is money lost from the general fund. States can add their own incentives including relief from state income taxes. Regardless, it costs lots of public monies to sell these cars. If you expect a sufficient number to be sold…do the math. It. Will require lots of tax dollars. Auto companies can’t make enough money on these cars yet they are the few who can actually do it. I don’t know why that simple fact seems to allude so many of us. I get the impression that gee, once we have a break through in battery technology, someone will make a mint selling these cars. Battery technology is sufficient for these cars NOW and they can’t sell without these incentives. The infrastructure supports oil powered cars and nothing will change unless it’s publicly funded…like it is now but to a much greater degree. Facts are facts ! All companies are designed to maximize protist and the auto company and oil are no different. No one will sell electric cars without public financial support !!!
No one will build a bridge without public monies, unless you allow them to charge a toll. The only way auto and energy companies will build electric cars is if they are powered by fuel cells they can sell to you regularly and somehow require more maintenance then electric motors do now.
Tell me ONE EV that can be sold in meaningful numbers without a govt. Subsidy, tax credits or incentives.
Which is a STRONG indication that EVs aren’t “all that.” Remember, good products drive bad products out of the marketplace all by themselves.
Also, on the subject of energy use, EVs get around 100 MPGe…100 miles off of an “energy-equivalent” of 1 gallon of gas. That’s out of the plug, though, and the generation, transmission, et. al. of electricity is only 36% efficient, on average (last time I checked)…meaning on a “BTU of burned stuff” basis, an EV is on par with a fairly efficient ICE. (It also means the Volt is equally efficient regardless of which fuel it uses.)
Which is a STRONG indication that EVs aren’t “all that.”
So, subsidies are an indication that an industry can’t make it on its own? Then why is the petroleum industry one of the most heavily subsidized industries in the country?
“Then why is the petroleum industry one of the most heavily subsidized industries in the country?”
Actually, it’s not. Start with an incorrect assertion, and get all kinds of incorrect results. On a percent basis the alternate energy industry is far more subsidized. MANY industries are ‘heavily subsidized’. In this report’s list of the 25 companies with the larges tax subsidies, only 3 are oil companies. And I fault this study for not putting their results in terms of total company income, which skews the results.
this whole liberal vs conservative theme is ridiculous. it divides us when we could easily be united. the parties are destroying our unity as a nation. would venture to say that they do not represent us anymore.
take autos and fuel for instance. I support moving toward renewable, environmentally friendly vehicles and energy sources.
I also support pipe lines and opening some new areas for drilling for oil, as safely as possible, to enable us to be independent and able to stand up for our deals without having to hold our nose and deal with nations that hate us. not working with Canada, as in pipelines, and preferring to deal wth totalitarian regimes is crazy IMO.
none of the parties represent these views. its either one or the other, no matter what they say to get elected. the money needed to get elected, and the influence that it buys, is the root of our problems
conservation is another area where we could work together instead being divided and branding the other side as an enemy.
the green guys and the gun guys should be natural allies. they both love wild areas. we could preserve more of these surviving wilderness areas if we would work together.
if the green guys would allow hunting fishing and use of these areas by our citizenry, and the gun guys would allow that roads and motorized vehicles be made off limits in our wild areas, we could save them.
I just hope that we can get back to the time when we could disagree without demonizing those who have a different view.
this forum is one of the places where it is still the case that we can disagree civily, mostly. none of us fit the labels that are so often applied to us.
@texases
"Energy companies don’t build cars."
Energy companies work in close consultation with auto manufacturers to help determine the the design of the motors and availability of fuels that will help sell the most cars. Energy companies are a very big part of car design. They are one of the single biggest influences on power plants used in cars and trucks.
“Energy companies work in close consultation with auto manufacturers to help determine the the design of the motors and availability of fuels that will help sell the most cars.”
Chevy Volt MSRP, $35,000 aprox. Price after tax incentives depending upon the state you live in. $26,000
EPA rating…38 mpg. 35 mpg city, 40 mpg county.
This is what the tax rebate gives you. The functional mileage of a Corolla ! If all you do is drive your can within20 miles of home, you can benefit. As soon as travel farther, those are the official mileage figures. It’s hype like this that makes the real cost of EVs so high for tax payers with so little return. It’s we actually believing that auto industries are benevolent enough to do anything on their own other then make profits. Volts are nice driving and very pleasant automobiles. They are not a solution to our driving needs and are just another profit making gimmick on the part of GM. Nothing wrong with that…just sell us a Spark instead in all states given how much money goes from the tax payers to corporate pockets.
"car companies and fuel producers would be foolish not to work together considering that their products are often used together. "
Nope, energy companies don’t work in ‘close consultation’. Fuel specs are set, oil specs are set, done deal. Making it sound like oil companies have anything to do with the day to day (or even year to year) design process is incorrect.
The EPA has MUCH more to do with setting fuel specs than any oil company does.
Zzzzzzzzz You actually think that any Leafs or any other other EV or plug in hybrid would sell many cars for their asking price…hello, anyone at home ? Maybe you have never shopped for one ?