Tesla Model S - reality is troubling

@George,do other companies do this?Remember the “secret” warranties,or were you just referring to the individual car?-Kevin

I’ll answer for George, since he’s probably eating dinner right now . . .

Yes, other companies also have “secret warranties” . . . although they are usually not always called warranties.

On the one hand, it’s a good thing, the fact that these warranties exist

On the other hand, the companies are not taking out a full page ad in the New York Times, alerting the whole world to the existence of this warranty

They’re often called special policy, customer satisfaction, etc.

And often the only way to find out for certain is to show up at the dealer, with the car in person, talk to the appropriate individual, etc.

There is one sure-fire way to find out, though, but it involves spending up to $25, in some instances. Log onto the manufacturer’s technical website and look for all documents pertaining to your car, by vin number. You’ll have to sift through some stuff. But if it exists, you’ll find it there.
Because it’s the same website the dealer uses. By law, anybody must be allowed to have access to these websites. But the law doesn’t say the website must be free. In years past, access to these websites was not required by law.

But it does raise an alert.

Yup…It does raise an alert…and we all should be watchful.

But to me what will determine Tesla’s future…is how they handle this. So far it sounds good. As opposed to GM who just seems to ignore problems for years.

@‌insightful

“…individual oil companies are highly likely to independently decide to attempt to thwart them.”

So how would an oil company thwart them?

Probably the same way “big coal” thwarted the replacement of steam engines with internal combustion engines and “big stone” thwarted the iron age and “big candles and illuminating gas” thwarted the development of the electric light bulb, “big movie” kept out television and “big telegraph” thwarted the telephone.

B.L.E., you are very wise.

or maybe how Edison thwarted tesla… look it up

or how the DuPonts thwarted hemp production, or tobacco co s thwarted health risk disclosure, the list could go on and on and include some of the very examples you mocked

Most inventions that fail were likely not very good ideas in the first place. Inventors often fall into the trap of falling in love with their own inventions and exaggerating the shortcomings of existing or competing technology in order to prop up their ideas, and when the market fails to adopt their ideas, the fanboys of the failed technology are quick with the conspiracy theories. Sometimes it even gets personal.
Edison is a good example of falling into the trap of exaggerating the drawbacks of AC current because he invented DC power distribution, yet three phase AC current was such a good idea that it prevailed anyway.

A friendly reminder about the Volt as we had this debate before. It is a typical hybrid, unlike the hype that GM tried to feed is about it being an EV with a range extending gas engine. The only difference being, it has a larger battery allowing it to run on the battery only at lower speeds a longer, up to 40 miles. Just like the Prius plug in, as the speed increase, the gas engine comes on to help charge the batteries AND AID DRIVING THE CAR through a planetary gear set similar to the one in the Prius. There is no elegant solution other then being a good cover up of a traditional parallel hybrid which operates in different modes depending upon demands as determined by the computer. Over a long trip, it is less efficient car then the Prius. Why is that more elegant ? It is more efficient for the first 40 miles and only at lower speeds running on just the battery. If you use a car for both trips which require the gas motor and around town, there are less expensive options.

If you really want a conspiracy, GM propagated one right there. The Volt is not an EV driven solely by an electric motor, it’s a parallel hybrid. Their Spark is a real GM made electric car and highly recommended by CR…if you live in one of two states. The proof is right there. If GM was serious about providing an EV to everyone, they would sell it to everyone. You call conspiracy, I call it marketing. Either way, there is a lot of deception going on by both oil and auto companies !!!

@‌Insightful
You are aware that oil has one of the strongest lobby and unlimited funds now to support candidates who support legislation that benefit them. We had administrators who were employed by oil and oil service companies both prior to and after their time in office. Legislation continuing to support or not the building of EVs is highly susceptible to their influence. No conspiracy, just fact.

The Toyota RAV EV from a decade ago is a continued success story. They still run beautifully and get nearly 80 100 miles per charge. Their NiMH batteries cannot be replaced but have provided yeoman service to their owners for a decade. Another attempt to keep these vehicles from viability is indeed an automotive and oil company marketing ploy.

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=E01

@dagosa‌

I well remember our previous discussion of the Volt, as I had a few words to say

And I agree with you 100% about the Volt

The Volt is not a real EV

Nevertheless, GM has bucks and influence, so they managed to get it classified as such . . .

I don’t think Kia or Mitsubishi would have been able to pull that off

At the time of the Volt’s introduction, it was “necessary” to have a domestic EV

Time for change,get rid of lobbyists.In my world the government would be radically different in the few weeks before I was assinated there would radical change.
Big auto and sports wouldnt run the country,no conspiracy from the truck and car makers you say?Look what they did to metro transport back in the 30s,etc-Kevin

While I reject most conspiracy theories, it is of record that, in the early '50s, General Motors–in conjunction with one or two tire companies–bought-up the light rail & trolley companies that served southern California. Then, one by one, they shut those rail lines down and replaced them with buses, in order to sell…surprise, surprise…buses and tires for those buses.

And, the new bus networks somehow did not manage to serve all of the areas that had been served by rail transport, so this also helped to spur car sales to Los Angelinos. Yes, the pent-up demand for cars after WW II was a major factor in increased car sales nationwide, but in the LA area this demand was greatly increased by a relative lack of mass transit in the wake of the shut-down of the trolley and light rail lines.

And, needless to say, the growth in road congestion and air pollution was fueled (pun intended) by the forced demise of rail transport in Southern California and the increase in car sales to people who simply needed to get from point A to point B.

The Volt is not a real EV

Whether or not you don’t consider the Volt a “real” EV, it is still a more elegant solution to making the car usable for long trips than loading down the car with a ton of batteries that by themselves cost more than the Volt does. The Tesla has a curb weight of 4600 pounds. It literally weighs about twice as much as the ICE car I drive. It weighs over a thousand pounds more than the Volt does, in spite of the extensive use of aluminum and composite materials.
When used for the kind of driving where EVs are at their best, the ICE in the Volt almost never starts, so it effectively is an EV for that purpose.
The problem with increasing the range of electrics by adding batteries is that soon you have what amounts to a battery on wheels and if you add still more batteries, you end up with a bigger battery on wheels that takes more energy to accelerate and move which negates the extra energy stored in the bigger batteries. The Tesla is very close to being a battery on wheels.

Why doesn’t “big electricity” step in and build charging stations everywhere so “pure” electrics can actually make road trips? I’m sure they could get some lobbying help from big coal, big nuclear, big wind, and big solar.

While I reject most conspiracy theories, it is of record that, in the early '50s, General Motors--in conjunction with one or two tire companies--bought-up the light rail & trolley companies that served southern California.

GM did that throughout the country. They wanted municipalities to buy buses instead. GM was actually brought to court for this…and found GUILTY…and fined a whopping $200k. Which even back then was a pocket change to them.

if the EV charges with 220v the infra structure is already there, in every building in the nation. its just a simple matter of putting in a few plugs. most places have enough extra capacity in their electrical service to add a couple plugs with out upgrading their service at all

@wesw

8:44AM

if the EV charges with 220v the infra structure is already there, in every building in the nation. its just a simple matter of putting in a few plugs. most places have enough extra capacity in their electrical service to add a couple plugs with out upgrading their service at all

That’s fine and well as long as your driving is confined to urban areas where buildings are. Where do you stop and plug in when you are driving from Clovis NM to Santa Rosa NM on highway 84? How about Corpus Christi TX to South Padre Island where there are “no gas (or anything else) next 90 miles” warning signs?

If your driving is confined to urban commuting, the Nissan Leaf is an excellent choice. EV’s strong suit is urban driving. The Volt hardy ever starts its ICE when used that way, however, the Volt owner does not have to own a second car for those occasional long road trips where an EV with a 50 mile range can’t realistically go, unless you relish knocking on stranger’s doors to see if you can bum some electric power off of them.

every silver lining is surrounded by clouds…

me: grass is green
you: what about Kentucky bluegrass?

I can think of numerous solutions, but there no point . you seem dead set against any thing that does not include ICE.

I am beginning to wonder why. if you would care to enlighten me, I ll listen. maybe I ll learn something.

No, EV’s are not for everyone…But I’m sure Tesla would be VERY happy with just 10% of the vehicle market…