Synthetic oil

ford
mustang

#1

I have a 2007 ford mustang gt with 3000 miles on it. Should I change the oil to synthetic on the next oil change


#2

Why? It doesn’t protect any better than regular oil, just allows you to extend the oil changes. Synthetic oils hold their lubricating properties under a longer duration than regular oil. That is all. The rest is marketing hype. Changing the oil at regular intervals, usually following the ‘severe’ recommendation in the maintenance schedule, is all that is necessary. The ‘normal’ schedule is fine if you do 80% or more interstate travel.


#3

Check the owners manual.

Does it state anywhere the benefit of using a synthetic oil?

Tester


#4

i was just curious on rather the synthetic oil made any kind of difference on the performance


#5

from what i remember the owners manual just says 5w20 motorcraft


#6

If the owner’s manual recommends synthetic, use synthetic. If not, it’ll have no benefit.

If you do feel better using synthetic, however, know that you can do so with complete confidence even if it isn’t referenced as recommended by the owner’s manual. Lots of folks like to use it anyway. It costs more, but they sleep better.


#7

No. That’s all marketing hype.


#8

Keeping your Mustang in Motorcraft oil and oil filter is a hard combination to beat. If you are a value shopper, these items are available at Walmart at a very reasonable price.


#9

If synthetic oil doesn’t protect better, why do almost all racers use it, it’s factory fill on many high-performance cars, and some manufacturers won’t honor your warranty if you don’t use it on their turbocharged engines?

My advice would be to try a full synthetic oil (like Mobil-1) and see what you think. Your car also doesn’t seem to get driven much. Using a full synthetic may also keep sludge from building up in your engine if it sits for long periods.


#10

If synthetic oil doesn’t protect better, why do almost all racers use it, it’s factory fill on many high-performance cars

Because those cars need it. They are operating under different conditions. Most cars do not need it. It is a case of X is good but 2X may not be any better.


#11

If synthetic oil doesn’t protect better, why do almost all racers use it, it’s factory fill on many high-performance cars, and some manufacturers won’t honor your warranty if you don’t use it on their turbocharged engines?

Synthetics tend to have a bigger envelope of functionality and endurance. Old group 1 20w-50 would have worked just as good for Porsche in racing if they allowed time to pit every 4 or 5 laps to change the oil LOL!!

If you’re not going to exceed the margins of conventional oil to get your money’s worth out of synthetic (either in length of service or severity of service - same thing only compressed) then there is no benefit to it.

There is no such thing as magic oil. There are those that flow better cold …resist oxidation when very hot …and last longer in service without deposit formation.


#12

You don’t need synthetic oil in your engine. It won’t do you any harm but it won’t do you any good either. It will just cost you money. This is similar to those people who run around with pure nitrogen in their tires. Air is 78% nitrogen anyway so it’s just a waste of money.


#13

You MAY see a 0.5 mpg increase.


#14

I wonder. I’d really like to see data on this. One issue is a number of mechanics on other boards have said synthetic oil is much less likely to sludge when dino might. If this is true, and I suspect it is, then that would not only justify using it, but also constitute a major advantage of it.

A reminder that I had my Mobil-1 EP tested at 8800 miles of highway driving and it was still good in all parameters. I’d like to try dino oil for 8800 miles, or even 5,000 miles and have it tested, but my Sienna is one that some folks have said has a sludge motor and I don’t want to risk it just for learning purposes.

The problem is there is so much we don’t know, so when we discuss oil on this board, in most cases, people are simply stating their own decisions, which is fine as their own decision, but not so good when presented as on a stone tablet.

For example, I am not clear on what causes sludging. I am beginning to think the oil “cooks” with heat over time. And the hotter it gets, the quicker it “cooks”. Which is why cars with rare oil changes will almost always end up sludged.

Tom and Ray once said the Toyota problem had something to do with engine design, and there was a hot spot in those motors which cooked the oil, which is why I theorize hotter means “cooked” faster. If they were wrong, then I am off by a mile.

A race engine runs very hot, so dino oil will cook very fast. Though Tom McCahill said many years ago, when there was no synthetic, that the problem with dino oil in race cars was it had to be drained as soon as it was shut off to keep it from setting up like Jello™. And, no, they did NOT stop and change the oil every four laps. Some of the fastest racers were long before synthetic oil was created.

Look up the MB F-1 racers for 1938. They had so much power, though weighing not much more than an Old Beetle, around 646 brake horsepower, that a clutch couldn’t work, so they had some kind of mechanical tooth arrangement, and when they recruited new drivers, only one man, Dick Seaman (?) could start it without tossing it backwards in the nearest ditch. They most likely used dino oil, far inferior to anything we have today, though I don’t know that, because I’ve heard some folks used non-petroleum oils in cars. And, they didn’t changer the oil every 4 laps.

Like I said, I am not sure,that is my whole point in this posting. There is so much more we need to know, and we don’t know it.

My best GUESS is that synthetic is better on all cars. But, since I am admitting there is so much I don’t know, and think most here really don’t know much better than I do, that it is a guess.

I will say in line with what others have said about the 3,000 mile oil change that the ratio of total cost of a car, and the cost of a new motor, in comparison to the cost of oil changes at any distance, that I feel the same ratio applies to the cost of synthetics, and I plan to use them as long as they are available.


#15

I wonder. I’d really like to see data on this. One issue is a number of mechanics on other boards have said synthetic oil is much less likely to sludge when dino might. If this is true, and I suspect it is, then that would not only justify using it, but also constitute a major advantage of it. About what specifically? In regard to sludge, don’t you think that integrates to a duration of service “at stress”? One that a conventional endures just as well for a shorter time?

When you subject a common SBC …loaded to the gills 24/7/365 …does GM recommend a higher viscosity or a synthetic? Nope. They shorten the oil change interval.


A reminder that I had my Mobil-1 EP tested at 8800 miles of highway driving and it was still good in all parameters. I’d like to try dino oil for 8800 miles, or even 5,000 miles and have it tested, but my Sienna is one that some folks have said has a sludge motor and I don’t want to risk it just for learning purposes.

If you had a GM OLM you may have gotten up to 12k+ on conventional. How good was your M1 EP, that’s rated for 15k at doing 8800 miles? Did it pay for itself? You don’t know what a conventional would have looked like after 8800 miles of highway driving.

…but beyond all that, you prove that even in your interpretation of synthetic vs. conventional it is a matter of endurance. You used it longer than you would a conventional under identical “sweet spot” driving. It would be no different under severe conditions. Just cut both in half to work into your current view.


The problem is there is so much we don’t know, so when we discuss oil on this board, in most cases, people are simply stating their own decisions, which is fine as their own decision, but not so good when presented as on a stone tablet.

The simplicity of it all is that there is no such thing as magic oil. There are oils that reduce down time. Like I said, the Porsche’s that were burning up their engines by the end of the race didn’t need to burn up their engine due to the wasted conventional oils that they used decades ago. They only had to pit every 4 or 5 laps and change the oil and they would be fine. Synthetics allowed a much longer service interval without insult.


For example, I am not clear on what causes sludging. I am beginning to think the oil “cooks” with heat over time. And the hotter it gets, the quicker it “cooks”. Which is why cars with rare oil changes will almost always end up sludged.
sludge formation tends to be from neglected coupled with marginal design. Domestics rarely sludge in contemporary engines. Our engineers know how negligent we are.

[b]

Tom and Ray once said the Toyota problem had something to do with engine design, and there was a hot spot in those motors which cooked the oil, which is why I theorize hotter means “cooked” faster. If they were wrong, then I am off by a mile. [/b] Among other things, this is true …but again, this breaks down to a fatigue factor that is somewhat a time weighted average. Use an ester base stock and you could probably neglect the thing and suffer little to none. That’s something you cannot buy OTC everywhere and costs $$$.

A race engine runs very hot, so dino oil will cook very fast. Though Tom McCahill said many years ago, when there was no synthetic, that the problem with dino oil in race cars was it had to be drained as soon as it was shut off to keep it from setting up like Jello™. And, no, they did NOT stop and change the oil every four laps. Some of the fastest racers were long before synthetic oil was created.

Of course they didn’t …but they did, as you pointed out, had to drain the oil quickly since it would turn to jello. Same deal. If it only had 4 laps on it (THEY WOULD LOSE THE RACE) then that would not be necessary. It still comes down to “down time without insult coming to bear” (is the light bulb going off yet?).

And, they didn’t changer the oil every 4 laps. Have you figured out the point yet? LOL!


My best GUESS is that synthetic is better on all cars. But, since I am admitting there is so much I don’t know, and think most here really don’t know much better than I do, that it is a guess.
Synthetic oil is better than conventional oil. Whether you can make it pay is another story.

Let’s say you and I drive side by side from Atlantic City, NJ to Malibu beach. We do 3000 miles oil changes. You use synthetic …I use conventional. Did it make sense for you to use synthetic oil at about double the cost of my conventional? This naturally assumes that both cars are identical and are spec’d for conventional.

How did you get “something extra” out of it? You paid for it, but how did you get your money’s worth? Run it up to 5k …or the maximum OEM recommendation. Same deal. Now if you’re running your M1 EP out to 15k …and I’m stuck at 7500k (max OEM from …hmmm…GM without an OLM) then you’ve had half the down time and probably broke even.


I will say in line with what others have said about the 3,000 mile oil change that the ratio of total cost of a car, and the cost of a new motor, in comparison to the cost of oil changes at any distance, that I feel the same ratio applies to the cost of synthetics, and I plan to use them as long as they are available.

Aside from a design defect or neglect, when is the last time you’ve heard of a lubrication related failure?

I sell synthetic oils. I won’t sell it to someone if I can’t bring value to them. In your case I would sell it to you since you are not willing to use conventional oil to it’s sensible limits. A synthetic gives you confidence …whether or not you actually get a single benefit from it …other than less downtime.


#16

Irlandes, you’re elaborating on something I’ve said countless times. While I’ve no doubt that synthetic oil performs better in some high-stress lab tests, and perhaps under extreme conditions, I’ve yet to see any real empirical data that it prolongs the life of or enhances the reliability of a regular (non-performance) stock engine in real world conditions. It is my contention that a properly designed, properly maintained, and unabused engine will outlive the rest of the vehicle. I’ve owned some vehicles for hundreds of thousands of miles, all on dino, and have yet to wear out an engine.

Having said that, there do exist extreme cmditions (can you spell “turbo”?) for which manufacturers recommend synthetic, and of they recommend it that’s what one should use.


#17

I use synthetic and will never switch back. I can go twice as long between oil changes on synthetic with less ‘wear’ on the oil, and my car uses significantly less oil (about half a quart to a quart between 6,000-mile oil changes) than it did when I first got it and used dino oil. It now has over a quarter-million miles on it. It’s possible that I could have gotten the same results out of dino oil, but for spending perhaps an extra $30 per year to feel better about it and use better oil, who cares?

I use synthetic oil for the same reason I buy good quality tools and don’t eat Banquet frozen dinners. Life is short and difficult and doesn’t need to be a race to see who can save the most money by buying stuff that’s perhaps “good enough”. I don’t make a ton of money, but it’s not difficult to afford not using the cheapest stuff you can find. If I really wanted to waste money though, I’d use “Royal Purple” or one of the other synthetics that cost $8 a quart or more.

It may be subjective, but I truly feel that from the first start using synthetic that my car idled and ran smoother and quieter. And I certainly have more peace of mind starting the engine when it’s below freezing. True, the engine may be the only thing left in good shape when I sell or junk my old car, but at least it’s one less thing to worry about.


#18

I neglected to add this to my post, but if using synthetic makes a person feel better then I believe that’s reason enough to use it.

I does semm to me, however, that going twice as long between changes sort of cancels out the benefits (whether perceived or real) of using synthetic.


#19

I’ve yet to see any real empirical data that it prolongs the life of or enhances the reliability of a regular (non-performance) stock engine in real world conditions. It is my contention that a properly designed, properly maintained, and unabused engine will outlive the rest of the vehicle. I’ve owned some vehicles for hundreds of thousands of miles, all on dino, and have yet to wear out an engine.

This is clearly apparent in commercial/OTR service. If there was any truth to “less wear” it would be there. If there was a truly magic oil they would use it. A big rig using synthetic oil with a centrifuge can go up to 5 times as long between service intervals. It results in no significant time between overhauls. If it did result in a reduction in REAL WEAR, then EVERYONE would be using it even if it cost $50/gallon.

Now that’s a somewhat “fixed” environment where you don’t drive the things empty the majority of the time, you don’t often start them to go to the local store. If it’s too cold they use block warmers …etc…etc. We’ve got way more variables and we don’t have just two spec’d weights that are suitable for use in our engines. The big rigs spec (typically) just 15w-40 for conventional and 5w-40 for synthetics. For them “the wear is what the wear is”. We’ve got everything from 0w-20 to 15w-50 that will “work” (after a fashion), so we get to play around a bit in configuring our envelope.

If I was in Frostbite Falls ND …I’d use a synthetic and I wouldn’t care how much it cost over a conventional nor how much I got my money’s worth out of it.


#20

We Talk About Using The Owner’s Manuals For Recommendations . . .

. . . My Bonneville’s manual specifies only viscosity recommendations at ranges of temperatures. 5 w 30 works.

However, in the manual GM recommends SAE 5 w 30 Synthetic oil or an SAE 0 w 30 oil for use in extremely cold temperatures (below -20 F) because it " . . . will provide easier cold starting and better protection for your engine at extremely low temperatures."

Most people don’t deal with the extreme cold, but my car sits out and the temps here do reach -20F to -30F several times during our winters (Don’t you just envy me ?). I always use Mobil-1 5 w 30 to err on the safe side. It makes me all warm and tingly and my car loves it. I can’t see putting in 0 w 30 oil and then worrying about driving my car if the weather warms up, so it’s just 5 w 30 Synthetic, all year long, for me.

CSA