Again, “mechanic’s lien” HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CARS, ONLY REAL PROPERTY!!! And yes, I am shouting when I say that.
ZombieWoof…what medications are you taking? Are you a Canadian or British by chance.
In the United States we have a lot of terms that are used and are not exactly right. The biggest one that gripes me is “motor”. There is no motor under the hood, we do not use motor oil or a Motors manual. It’s an engine. We still know what it is when someone says my motor is locked up or my motor is running badly. We don’t have hot water heaters we have water heaters. I could go on. The term “mechanics lien” came from the automotive world and was adopted by the real estate market and real estate law. Just because the term was changed by who knows who…“repairmans lien” is still known in most states as “mechanics lien”.
A list of states with mechanics lien laws that was compiled by the Automotive Service Association (ASA) can be seen here: http://www.asashop.org/takingthehill/lien.htm
You need to stop shouting and start reading.
Actually, it doesn’t matter. This doesn’t apply in the slightest.
MI law is very specific about what can be done when after an initial estimate is made. The mechanic cannot come back and say, “Oh by the way, here’s another bill for more money.” It’s simply not allowed.
After reading the link for my state from the link you sent, the mechanic might be able to put a lien on the vehicle if it were still at the garage and I hadn’t paid the original, $2000+ bill. I did, it’s not, he can’t.
It does apply for other people. Your post gets information out all over the U.S. and other countries as well. This is what this website is all about. One answer can help a lot of others directly through your post. Your problem is just one out of many. I fully agree that the mechanic was in the wrong but I think he thought he was doing you a favor. You probably got a part that you did not pay for. If you can live with that so can I.
Since part of the work was ball joints I’m going to assume that the vehicle was there for handling problems and also that the vehicle was well-worn.
On that basis the test drive was appropriate. If the work order had speciified exactly what was to be done, then clearly he should have received authorization to replace the CV joint before doing so. If the shop order was to “diagnose and repair poor handling” or words to that effect, and it was understood that the estimate was truely an estimate, then you’re in a gray area. Whether you’re legally liable may depend on your state’s applicable laws. +/- 25% may be acceptable.
However, if your expectation was that they do the job right and the car feels great now, pay the money and next time you drop the car off write “call for authorization if work exceeds estimate”. Then enjoy your now-fixed car.
Oh, and laws vary by state. Some states have very specific laws relating to autos, and “mechanic’s lien” is used in the definition. Some states use the term for other property transactions. In NH a “mechanic’s lien” can only be done with a court order. A mechanic cannot simply retain posession of a vehicle because of money owed.
I’ve already responded to someone else with a pointer to the laws in Michigan. A mechanic is required to offer a written estimate up front [I did not get one] and is not allowed to ask for more money for another repair without asking about it up front. http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127-1585_50410_50412-33494--,00.html is the link I provided before.
The estimate I was given was things like $859 for this thing, $557 for the other, etc. Very specific. If this is valid: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ar0097_16020_7.pdf then they even screwed me in the original bill – I was quoted $90 for a new battery and then charged $110, which fails the “cannot charge more than $10 or 10% more, whichever is less.”
Basically this whole mess is a shady gray area. My current plan is to offer him roughly what the CV joint cost him and tell him that I’m aware of the laws, and if he wishes to feel differently he can take me to court. Aggressive? Perhaps. But I’m tired of being taken for a ride. No pun intended.
ZombieWoof is dead wrong in his statement about mechanics liens. I’ve filed them and a friend of mine who used to live near LA filed about a dozen of them once due to vehicles taking up valuable parking area. (vehicles were either abandoned by the owner or they refused to pay the bill)
So here’s what it says about OK. (read the second paragraph ZombieWoof)
http://www.needatitleokc.com/Whatisatitle42inOklahoma.html
You don’t even have to pay anyone to do this. It’s easily done by oneself.
OP, you’ve got nothing to worry about. The shop is not going to file a mechanics lien on your car and they’re not going to take you to court over a few hundred bucks; especially considering the way this came about. If they attempted either they’re total fools on top of being unethical. (polite term)
Apparently the definiton of it disagrees with you:
“If a person has repaired, furnished supplies or materials, towed or stored a vehicle and has not been paid for the services rendered, that person has a lien against the vehicle. The lien arises at the time the registered owner is presented with a written statement of charges for completed work or services.”
The Department of Motor Vehicles is going to be surprized to hear that.
As will
General Motors Corp,
Ford Motor Company,
Chrysler Motors,
Harley Davidson Motorcycles,
Hell’s Angels Motorcycle Club (do YOU want to tell them?),
and countless others.
The Motor Vehicle Violation I got…can I tell the judge it’s invalid because I don’t have a motor under my hood? Motor Vehicle laws are now moot?
Motorboats…should we call them engineboats? Does Mercury know?
Sorry my friend, but “motor” is well established in out legal and general use applications as a legitimate term for an engine as well as an electric motor.
Thanks for making my point. Motor is not defined as an internal combustion engine. A motor uses external force to generate power. It’s use does not make it a definition. It’s just a quirk of our language. There are many words out there that we use all the time even though it does not meet the requirements of a definition. Does your home have a hot water heater? Absolutely not. You don’t need to heat hot water. It’s a water heater. When we call things by the wrong name we are using “misnomers”. They are wrong but accepted as right.
I think a lot of this depends on what your prior relationship to the mechanic is. If you’ve never used him before and have any reason to doubt the legitimacy of the second bill, then don’t pay it. I doubt he’ll go after you for such a small amount and he should have called to get authorization beforehand.
If you think it was just a genuine oversight and believe the car really needed the additional repair, go ahead and pay for it. People make mistakes and he probably thought he was doing you a favor.
I think it all comes down to your relationship with him. If I dropped my car off at my mechanic for a $2,000 repair and he found something wrong at the end of the day that didn’t cost dramatically more, I’d rather him just fix it vs. trying to get a hold of me at work and potentially having to keep it another day. But this level of trust took years to develop.
I have used a mechanics lien more than once in my 36 yrs working on vehicles. I personally think the axle was damaged during the repair or the job was mis-diagnosed from the beginning. No mileage was mentioned nor what the rest of the repairs were. This information would be helpful in determining how this all came about.If the axle was bad, you would have heard a clicking noise at the least.If the axle was damaged during the repair, the mechanic and shop should have absorbed the cost of this repair.The shop would not have made the profit expected from your repair, but they would retain you as a customer, and your letter would not have been posted.You should have been notified first, but perhaps this was a last minute repair before you arrived. I advise all vehicle owners to stay in touch with the shop.A vehicle owner only has one vehicle to keep up with during the day,the shop has dozens.
I spoke to the mechanic 3 hours before I picked up my vehicle. Somehow in those 3 hours it magically got a bad CV joint that had to be repaired. The vehicle has about 105,000 miles on it and it was in for, among other unrelated issues, new ball joints.
I'd pay it. The mechanic ABSOLUTELY should have called you. But, I've been to Michigan, the roads there are bad (as they are here in Iowa). Ball joints and CV joints are a semi-regular replacement item here due to the large quantities of giant potholes and washboard, both on paved roads and on gravel & dirt ones. (In states where roads are somewhat smooth it'd be unusual to go through CV *or* ball joints very often). If you needed ball joints, it would not surprise me in the least if you didn't also need a CV joint. It IS in fact dangerous to drive around with a bad CV joint.Here’s New York’s take on it. It’s called an artisan’s lien. Mechanics’ lien is strictly land and building here.
NY Lien Law ? 180. Artisans’ lien on personal property. A person who makes,
alters, repairs or performs work or services of any nature and
description upon, or in any way enhances the value of an article of
personal property, at the request or with the consent of the owner, has
a lien on such article, while lawfully in possession thereof, for his
reasonable charges for the work done and materials furnished, and may
retain possession thereof until such charges are paid.
Missileman, my friend, I have a link for you
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.com/definition/motor
While all motors are not internal combustion engines, all internal combustion engines are motors. The ICE fits under the unbrella of the term motor.
I have a link for you. This “disagreement” has gotten off the subject a little but I still respect most of your opinions. I will concede that the term “motor” is in some dictionaries defined as engines but I can find others that don’t. In the pure sense of the word “motor” is just a commonly accepted term for engine but it’s still a misnomer. We will just have to agree to disagree. Here is the link: http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/engine.html
It has been made clear to me that I was wrong on this. I stopped researching when I found information that confirmed my conception. I apologize for being wrong. Thank you for your concern about my medications, missileman. A lesser person than I might take that as an ad hominem attack, but fortunately, I am not a lesser person.
I’d like to thank people for taking the time to reply. One last comment: I do not work and have a very limited budget. Coming up with $2000 to repair this vehicle almost literally broke me, especially since it was more than I had budgeted [and had told the mechanic I had to spend].
I am almost amused by the people who seem to feel that another $250 is “just a little more” after having spent $2000. To some people $2000 is a year’s savings [or more], and $250 is more than is spent for groceries in a month. Please don’t assume that just because that much money was spent for major repairs that there’s another wad of cash just lying around to do more.
I do indeed have a hot water heater in my home. I use it to keep the hot water hot.
Of course, it’s “Its use…” not “It’s use…”
I would respectfully suggest that a motor performs work, which may be measured in terms of power.
To paraphrase Joseph Campbell’s retelling of the conversation between Indra and Brahma, “misnomers all.”