This is all a matter of perspective. Many classic car diy’ers can’t wait to discover a new problem, so we have something to fix! We don’t bill ourselves an hourly rate, what would be the point? But when you have to pay $160/hour, the owner will eventually will have to move an older car on and buy a more recent vintage.
I understand that older cars have problems. And my car has had the occasional problem here and there, which I figured was par for the course in having an older car. As I mentioned above, it’s still cheaper than making car payments.
But when you have a problem that’s from the repair, and the repair itself just drags on (like installing a new cluster, but not checking if all the bulbs were working, so the customer has to come back; or replacing the bulbs and creating a new problem; or replacing a manifold gasket but not checking if the idle is rough, so the customer has to come back) – things like that aren’t due to the car being old; they’re due to the repair itself dragging on.
I think of the relationship of the car owner to the mechanic similar to a patient to their physician. The patient expects the physician to use their training and experience to do their best to fix the problem, and to continue to work on it until the patient is satisfied w/the result. But the patient doesn’t expect the physician to fix the problem on the first try, or that the fix will never introduce a new problem. That’s just par for the course, expected to happen sometimes. And the patient fully expects the physician will continue to bill them right up to the point the patient says “good enough”. I doubt more than that is even possible for a car owner to expect.
I disagree with your analogy. A physician works in the dark – most of the time having to guess at what the problem is based on symptoms. Sometimes it’s an educated guess; sometimes it’s a definitely test result; other times it’s just trial and error.
With a mechanic, sure, when diagnosing a problem, there might be similarities. But when performing a task, such as replacing a cluster or replacing a manifold gasket, there are certain things that should be done – like testing it to make sure it’s working properly and checking the results afterwards to make sure everything is running correctly. That’s different than a physician trying to diagnose a problem.
Another difference is that most physicians bill insurance companies, so there’s no compunction against just billing them for a second visit, even if it was to correct something the doctor did wrong the first time. If patients paid cash for everything, they more than likely wouldn’t bill for a visit to correct their mistake.
The relationship between a car owner and their mechanic makes for an interesting question. Sort of a philosophy question. Thanks for taking time to post your perspective as a hourly-rate paying car owner. Others here wearing a different hat have a chance to post as well, the purpose of a forum.
They are due to using a poorly run shop!
The situation with the instrument cluster just got weirder!
In post 71 I mentioned how originally the lights behind 0-30 MPH were out, but all the other lights worked.
Then they replaced the bulbs behind 0-30, so they worked, but 60-120 was then having problems.
60-90 would gradually light up as the engine warmed up, but 90-120 stayed dark.
Then the next day, 60-90 was bright immediately when starting the engine, but 90-120 was still dark.
So I brought it into the shop, but before they could even look at it, the entire speedometer, from 0 to 120 was brightly lit! But now the fuel gauge to the right of it was dark on its left side!!
Really weird!
Anyway, they’re going to try changing all the light bulbs and checking the contacts tomorrow.
But just really strange how the problem keeps jumping around to different parts of the cluster (or, more accurately, moving from left to right along the cluster)!
If the panel dimmer is set to “bright” then this is not a malfunction. Lights going out is a malfunction, replace the bulbs. It is confusing when you complain about the lights getting bright.
You’re not following.
After they replaced the bulbs behind 0-30, then the right side of the speedometer was dark. 0-60 was lit, but 60-120 was dark.
But then, as the engine warmed up, 60-90 gradually got brighter over a 5-10 minute period. 90-120 stayed dark.
But the next day 0-90 was bright immediately, but 90-120 was dark.
And then today, 0-120 is bright, but the left side of the fuel gauge is dark.
Bad cluster
That’s what I thought too.
Just spoke with the service manager. He said they pulled the cluster, while keeping it connected, and moved it around, to see if it would change how the lights acted, to see if it was a bad connection or broken solder joint, perhaps. He said it didn’t change how the lights acted.
He said they went ahead and changed all the light bulbs in the cluster that they hadn’t already changed, and he said that all of the lights are working now. Said they also looked for any corrosion on the connections, but didn’t see any.
So, a pretty weird situation, for sure. But seems to be working now. I guess we’ll see what happens in the days to come.
This should be a teachable moment, as they say . . .
I advised you to NOT have someone else’s used cluster installed, but to rather have YOURS repaired
I specifically said you might very well be installing a cluster with problems YOURS did not have
And unless I misread or misunderstood something, you didn’t heed my advice and that is exactly what happened
If I were you, I’d remember this, so that in the future you don’t make the same mistake again
That said, good luck with the van 
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I think this is one of those situations where the OP keeps asking the same question different ways because he is not getting anyone to agree with him that he is right. 
That would cost money, he’s got these guys performing these repairs for free or very close to nothing.
Please explain to me what question I keep asking different ways? The fuel gauge in the cluster was bad and the shop couldn’t find a cause so they replaced the cluster. What question am I asking over and over again in different ways?
Thanks.
If I understand correctly, they installed someone else’s used cluster and by doing so, your van now has all sorts of problems it didn’t have with your old cluster
Doesn’t seem like a very successful repair, imo
There are plenty of companies which will repair YOUR cluster . . . and they typicall replace all the stepper motors, illumination and make sure the darn thing works correctly before giving it back to the customer
The fact that the shop knew the fuel gauge wasn’t working correctly but couldn’t find a cause strongly implies their diagnostic skills aren’t very good
Figuring out the cause of a fuel gauge not working correctly isn’t rocket science for a decent and experienced mechanic and/or shop 
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Yes, I understand all of that. My question was directed at @Renegade , who said I kept asking the same question in different ways because I didn’t like the answer. I was asking him what question he was saying I was asking in different ways because I wanted people to agree with me.
You keep ignoring good advice and keep wanting to do it your way.
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Again, can you please explain to me what specifically you are referring to?
We’re discussing here the instrument cluster. The fuel gauge was bad, and the shop diagnosed the problem, couldn’t find the cause, and so they replaced the cluster.
What, exactly, was “my way” that I keep wanting to do? I’m afraid you lost me here. You wrote:
I think this is one of those situations where the OP keeps asking the same question different ways because he is not getting anyone to agree with him that he is right
What question did I “keep asking in different ways because I couldn’t get anyone to agree with me”? I have absolutely no idea what you’re referring to.
Perhaps you can tell me, specifically, what question I asked in different ways.
Thanks.
[quote=“enargins, post:96, topic:193434”]
The fuel gauge in the cluster was bad and the shop coumber on.uldn’t find a cause so they replaced the cluster.
Number one.
Number two,
Number three.
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