Standard heads on metric fasteners? -China stuff

Well that video was well worth the time. Bothered me a little that they blamed the pilot at all when it ws only extraordinary skill that got it on the ground. Everyone in the simulator crashed. I understand that evaluators need to identify every failure point but still think it is an unnecessary blemish. Kinda like the people were saved but ran over the dog. How about you trying it would be my response.

I still like pilots that have been shot at though.

How were they even allowed to fly with inoperative fuel gauges? What if there was a fuel leak that went undetected?

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Oh, come on, a fuel leak on a multi-million dollar airplane, not a chance… Or so they thought!

Actually this is what happened and here is their story…

Those Mayday tv shows are definitely fascinating, and relavent to newer cars b/c both share similar computerization schemes, problems caused by sensor failures, complexities with incompatibility of repair parts, etc. We used to get that show here in San Jose but after it was broadcast for several years I presume that network had to make room for other shows. Hopefully it will return at some point. I think it was a Canadian Broadcast Network show originally. Whoever produced it did an excellent job. The shows cover other transport modes than airplanes, but I find the airplane topics the most interesting.

Well it was Canada. Even more confusing for those folks with Imperial measures. I’d like to see that stern aviation investigator try and land that plane. I’m not sure though a faulty fuel gauge would ground the plane provided you knew about it and had other means of calculations. I didn’t have the money to go beyond ground school though and not Canada so what do I know, except that pilot should have gotten a national award and parade.

Definitely some incredible piloting skills. I wonder if that is taught in commercial aviation school, or this particular pilot knew about it from other flying, military/private, & kept this is a back-up landing technique in his mind for this very situation? Like hero-pilot Sully seemed to know exactly what to do before-hand, when the birds stopped all the engines in NYC.

As far as whether the pilot shares blame, that’s harder to say. For example if someone bashes into your car as you drive down the road, who’s to blame? It depends of course. If the pilot knew there was a fuel gauge issue, common sense says any manual calculations should be repeated several times and verified by the co-pilot and all hand calculations should clearly show the units. Physicians usually insist all measurements, charts, etc presented to them about their patients clearly show the units for the same reason.

The video explains the procedure was used by him as a glider pilot. Mitigating though was the fact that there was no longer a navigator position or whatever in the new aircraft, and that there was no clear assignment of that responsibility anymore. So if the feds did not provide clear delineation of responsibility, not sure why the pilot could be dinged. They don’t check tire pressure either. It would be on the pre flight checklist and issues noted. They would not be expected to check the math or question the guy on the ground fueling the tanks .
Like usual investigators pick anything that could be a contributing factor whether reasonable or not. Get hit at a stoplight and it’s you fault for not getting out of the way.

Any truth to what I was once told that all tooling is engineered in metric?

This goes back some years. From 1940-1961 my grandfather was a machinist. I found a “blueprint” for something he was machining it was all in inches and in some case out to 4 decimal places.

No idea, but I expect these days most tooling is made with programmable computerized milling machines, lathes, etc, and it seems quite possible they require metric dimensions for the inputs. In my prior tech job sometimes I needed a mold made out of steel by the local machine shop , and the mold dimensions on the drawing were always specified metric.

My calipers read metric and sae but I’ll often just switch to metric for more accuracy. Especially when trying to figure out what 2.367 inches is.

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Almost all of our machine shops take an output from the 3D CAD software and directly import this into the machine doing the work. No manual interpretations necessary.

The design software doesn’t care which UOM you choose. It converts freely back and forth.

If the question is- do most companies design with metric fasteners? The answer is- it depends. :wink: We still have some domestic customers that specify SAE hardware, thread pitch or clearance holes. When it’s our choice, we will default to metric as it has the most acceptance worldwide.

When I worked for a car company, ALL our designs were metric even though sheet steel thickness or bar stock diameter was actually English. Yeah, grab me some 25.4mm bar stock… Everything we did in engineering school was in metric (English Slugs are just awful things!)

When the machinist made the part or a die to stamp it, they converted the measurements into English even though they had both sets of measuring tools. They learned in English and they worked in English even though the designs were in metric.

The forklift company I worked for also designed in Metric but used English bolts and nuts because that was commonly available to field technicians. So really the machines were Minglish.

I started working on cars about age 15 and so point and plug gaps, tappet and bearing clearances were in English. I have a better physical feel for how thick 0.020 inches is than 0.51 mm or a 0.002 inch piston clearance rather than 0.051 mm.

HUH? Using software would make it EXTREMELY EASY to use whatever system of measurement you want. And with the ability to switch from one system of measurement to another in less than a second.

Most Science in grade school in US is mainly taught in SAE UOM. Even in the late 60’s and early 70’s when I went to high-school - AP Physics class was mostly using Metric. And the same for the Physics and other science classes and higher math classes I took in college used Metric. Why the US hasn’t switched to Metric yet is beyond comprehension.

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Huh? … lol …

Not to belabor the on-going controversy, I think it depends on what field you are in. Machinist, chemist, engineer, using computers for calculations and set up, no problem. But as I look at my abstract and property records, there are a bazillion paper and copied records based on English. Then nation wide land measures and records in acres and sections, etc. Then if in construction, everything in English except plywood thickness sometimes. Conversion would take generations, but not only that, it would be totally unnecessary and not helpful at all.

I suppose it can be done and using Canada as an example but the question like many is why? Last I checked Canada is no great example anymore, and managed to come up with their imperial system of weights and measures to confuse even more. If the bank ever converts to euros, I hope they will let me know ahead of time.

When I worked in the tech industry, whenever somebody (usually from Marketing) said “its easy to do w/software” I knew to expect a lot of problems … lol …

I was trying to insert & format a table in Microsoft Word the other day. Eventually gave up and drew it w/a pencil.

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I was kid through the 70s into the 80s. There was a big push in the schools to teach and thus help transfer to metric in the US.

I wish it had worked…I just had a fight with my kitchen sink. I needed to get a set screw down inside of some dark tiny hole where you can’t see the damned thing. The “web” told me the size was 3/32" hex, but it was actually 2.5mm - and it took me longer than it should have to figure out how to get it. First is poking around blind in the hole not knowing if you have the right size or where you’re trying to poke. Then there’s wondering whether it really is hex or maybe torx. So there’s more poking around… Ugh. At this point just give me torx everyplace, including not having two different size standards.

I hear ya. Spent about four hours in the cramped cabinet trying to replace the disposal. New design, newish sink. Nothing to do with metric. I always have a mirror and a bright light handy. Faucets I think like to use English.

Now try finding a 4 mm or something left hand nut for an obsolete chain saw. Fastenal is your friend. Bought two just in case. Turning left instead of right ruins the threads.

Off topic.

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I don’t mind if a vehicle is built with Metric or SAE. What’s frustrated me a few times is a vehicle that’s built with Both. My 84 GMC S-15 pickup had both SAE and Metric bolts. I think it was the blue headed bolts that were metric. But after a while, that blue either wears off or is covered with dirt/grime.