Son can't register 2002 Mazda Protege in Florida

Please, no more “there must be something missing in this story.” Right on this thread are at least two more tales of Florida jerking people around for rivets on the dash VIN.

I will suggest it to him, db. As I have said, eventually he will get it solved. The question as one asked, what is wrong with the clerk in the first place. And, her boss as well. This is what the founders talked about when they said they feared their government.

Fair enough, irlandes. Apologies if I offended. I sincerely did not mean to. I was only trying to get all the details possible to help if at all possible.

It came over me in the night what is happening there. He says he can’t see anything wrong with the VIN plate.

I know. I know. The usual folks who believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are going to rant about tin hats, etc. However, I am a person who was twice stopped illegally on the highways of the USA. And so was my son. I have no false illusions about the purity of government officials nor LEO.

She gave a clue when she urged him to drive it illegally for two years. And, the second when she told him he would be driving another car before that. These are lawless people.

There doesn’t seem to be anything wrong with that plate and its rivets because there is nothing wrong with that plate and its rivets.

Those ‘folks’ are in my honest opinion stiffing people who come in with older high mileage cars, thinking (as most government criminals do) that they are making a better society. They use a vague problem with VIN to illegally refuse to register the cars. And, they know eventually the cops will stop him and he will have a big fine for not having his car registered. And, he will be harassed into getting another car, even as he is just starting to imagine getting their head above water again. Mazdas can go 500,000 miles. Some have done so.

I am going to advise him to go to the FBI office in Tampa and talk to them about the legality of refusing illegally to register cars from other states. Ask them to fill out the VIN verification form for him. They are LEO. Then challenge them to turn him down again.

Who would have thought there’s a special type of rivet just for the purpose of attaching the VIN plate!??

Why would you think there wouldn’t be a unique attachment method?
The idea is to make it difficult to swap them out and commit fraud. Like most deterrents, it usually only affects the lazy or incompetent. The correct rivets can be bought through a number of sellers…

From a law enforcement site:

“Check the VIN plate rivets to ensure they are original. All 1970 and newer autos produced in North America have stainless steel “rosette” rivets with six petals and a hole in the middle. They are difficult to scratch with a knife.”

Based on that description irlandes, does the vehicle in question have rivets fitting this description?

Apparently this is not an uncommon issue with other DMVs:

http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech-general-engine/99128-what-inspection-place-says.html

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-general/3036685-damaged-vin-tag.html

" There are states where the DMV will check that the VIN tag is attached with the correct “rosette” rivets. The wrong rivets are a red flag to DMV’s (and many potential future buyers), that a VIN tag has been tampered with."

Of course, your son’s Mazda was assembled in Japan, not US, so the original rivets were probably not rosettes. I have a Japanese-made Honda CRV, and its rivets are plain round-head. They look like the cheap aluminum rivets you buy at the hardware store.

in any case, there have been millions of Japanese produced cars registered in the USA. So, it all comes back to the same thing. The other tags are also very visible. They are jerking him around.

Of course, I can’t see the rivets. I will talk to him about it. I still recommend he goes to the FBI.

When you have a problem, go as high as you can. There is no reason he has to buy a car costing thousands just when they are starting to get their heads above water, because stupid inspectors don’t know how to inspect foreign made cars that are legal. The VIN will tell where the car was made.

My Sienna has 5 petals, not six.

Yes, Florida must be full of Japanese cars with round head riveted VINs. Sorry your son is having such a problem. No doubt other Floridians have had the same problem. Someone must have found a way around the obstacle. Hopefully your son will too.

FBI? Now you lost me.

@Nevada_545 posted long ago the Florida DMV statutes. Simply follow that requirement and see what happens. Seems simple enough. Sheriff, police officer, even a notary or 2nd luie. Shouldn’t be hard to find and take less time than visiting the FBI and having a file opened on you.

Lost you? Really? I explained it. First FBI is law enforcement. Second, they know where the hidden numbers are. Third, if the DMV is attempting to pull a fast one on him, they can deal with Federal law violations.

DMV did recommend he commit State law violations.

And, actually he already followed it by going to DMV which was listed on the page you quote. He did everything right and they turned him down.

There is no guarantee that they will accept a form from a cop when they already turned him down. They will be very unlikely to turn down the form from the FBI.

Einstein said something about repeating what didn’t work before and expecting different results.

He already has a file with the FBI. He lived in a Muslim country for two years.

Well, I think trying to bring the FBI in on a state DMV regulation is a bit over the top. Trying to investigate a DMV clerk for encouraging a statute violation of a state law is not going to be a high priority for anyone and I believe the proper chain of command would be the DA or AG not the FBI. More than ignorance or incompetence would need to be shown on the clerks part IMHO.

Nevada laid out the folks who can do the verification. One was “A law enforcement officer from any state”. I kinda doubt a federal agent is going to fit that definition. Again why not just go the local Sheriff and simplify life?

I find that is easier to follow procedure than to try to do things the way I prefer.

He did everything right and they turned him down.

He was referred to another dept. for the VIN verification, was he not?

In cases like this when tampering is suspected the DMV counter clerk has no discretion on the matter and must refer the case to a higher authority.

I think it would be best to contact the agent that was referred after the holiday for advise on the matter.

BTW I must have replace more than a hundred instrument panels over the years and used common aluminium rivets in place of the rosette rivets because my parts department didn’t want to go through the trouble of ordering them. I painted the rivets black so they wouldn’t stand out. If I had known they could fail an inspection I would have insisted on the correct rivets.

Yesterday I read the thread of the link found in Jesmed1’s post. The (unnecessary) drama is rather entertaining;

" Ooh this just keeps getting better. Today I got my TICKET in the mail. EXHIBITION OF ACCELERATION. For when I pulled out of the inspection place."

^ yeah, so at least one other person is getting jerked around somewhere by DMV. Moral: do not EXHIBIT ACCELERATION (peel out) upon leaving Inspection lot!

My Jap made Insight has 6-petal rivets.

The reason I brought up windshield removal was because it must be removed to rivet the VIN plate. Possibly, the windshield technician damaged the VIN plate and removed it to, I don’t know, flatten it back out maybe.

@jesmed1, you may want to check your CRV VIN plate against the frame stamp and your registration.

;-]

^ Fortunately Massachusetts has no VIN rivet police, so I haven’t had any problems. :wink:

I concur that the OP needs to get another gov’t agency of some kind involved to help out on this problem. I wouldn’t have guessed myself that the FBI is the best choice, but who knows?

It simply isn’t fair that the only way to get the out of state car registered and properly tagged requires the help of someone who won’t answer their phone. The DMV should have more than one person trained and able to assist o this issue, so there is somebody available at all times.

The DMV does have a responsibility to deter car theft, so that has to be taken into consideration also. Presumably that’s their intention in paying so much att’n to the rivet situation. Hopefully whoever isn’t answering their phone will start answering after the holidays. Also, if a Florida DMV employee actually suggested a work-a-round of just keeping the out of state plates indefinitely and hoping the driver doesn’t get caught violating Florida law, well, I think that employee’s “suggestion” needs to be called out to the Florida DMV management.

@irlandes, I suggest that your son talk to a local elected official, like a county or city councilman. I used to carpool with a local county councilman. He said that he always took up a citizen’s problems with the government. For legitimate issues where the government worker was at fault, he would do almost anything to force them to change their response, and do it in a very public way. He said he got more votes that way than any other. The right local politician will make that DMV office staff sorry they were ever born, and they cannot do anything to him.

I finally got a chance to talk to him in depth.At this point, he is going to keep trying that phone number no one answers. If nothing by mid next week, then he will try something else.

It is interesting in cases like this that some are sure the poster (myself in this case) is all wet, and others agree with poster.

Anyway, thanks for all ideas. When something happens, I will update, and hope its soon.

My brother has a home in Florida and before you go to the DMV you must take your car to the police department or a car dealer and they go over the car and check the vin number and give you some paperwork showing the car was verified.