Yeah, but the 56 Olds Delta 88 sure was a purrrrty car and that V8 Rocket engine had some nice giddy up! Actually got to drive it a couple of times on my learner’s permit before my folks sold it. I actually cried when they did.
Marnet
“Yeah, but the 56 Olds Delta 88 sure was a purrrrty car and that V8 Rocket engine had some nice giddy up! Actually got to drive it a couple of times on my learner’s permit before my folks sold it. I actually cried when they did.”
If I was you, I would go shopping for a '56 Delta 88.
Oh, if I ever have the disposable income to own a second car as a fun, hobby car, I’m going to do just that! I know it’s not a popular model w/ car collectors but I just happen to like it. On the other hand, I remember wishing I could ride in a pre-WWI Stutz-Bearcat like the one in the tv show Bearcats that was on in the early 70s. No accounting for my tastes. LOL
Marnet
The worst electronic breakdowns come from GM. In general, with all cars, the tire pressure monitors seem to have frequent failures or have troublesome tricks that they play on you. There aren’t a lot of air-bag failures, but you have to expect a good percentage of GM cars to give you problems. Remember how hard they tried to make Saturns into something good? They couldn’t do it. Now Saturn is like a replacement Oldsmobile. They are in such trouble these days that corners are being cut in every department. My 02 GMC pickup hasn’t been bad though, so you can get a good one.
When I was a kid my folks had a '55 Olds 88 white over blue. The styling on those did not impress me too much though.
I’ve got a '60 Olds Super 88 right now. Seats 6 adults comfortably and a big plus; it’s auto on the column and bench seats!
My 69 Dart takes few tools to keep running.
~Michael
Simple cars do not equal reliability over the lifespan of the vehicle. Electronic “gadgets” such as ABS are beyond reliable in modern cars as are power windows, locks, mirrors, fuel injection, and even things such as variable timing.
I sold a 95 Civic at 9 years/225k miles without a single repair to anything electronic over its life. Just a few radiators and a clutch master cylinder. The current owner is now at 13 years/290k with the same story. They only repaired suspension and exhaust beyond another radiator.
There is no simple car of the yesteryear that is as efficient nor as trouble/repair free and minimal maintenance as this Civic. Many modern base version cars will be the a similar experience except for Euro cars.
I agree that most of that electronic junk will work OK for 10 years, and that will probably define the “lifespan of the vehicle.” Let me know how it’s doing when it’s 30 years old, assuming the dealer will even continue to provide parts. You are only correct that these electronic toys are not the limiting factor if you treat the rest of the car as disposable.
I’m at 26 years/416K miles and going strong. My “car of the yesteryear” will still be on the road when the majority of 2008s are in the junkyard (especially after 2018, when the dealers stop supporting them and tell you to buy a new model).
If you enjoy your rolling relic fine, thats great 
. However the maintenance costs to maintain a 26 year old car over 416k miles likely exceed buying decent newer two cars(disposable) over the same timespan will yield less fuel consumption, less emissions, less shop/repair time and less maintenance.
I would like to suggest that maybe automobiles have gotten simpler in some ways. An overhead camshaft arrangement seems simpler to me than pushrods to open and close the valves. I will concede that the flat head engine was simpler, however. The fuel injection doesn’t seem as complicated to me as a carburetor. As I remember, the J-2 option on the late 1950 Oldsmobiles was very difficult to keep in adjustment. With fuel injection, we don’t have an automatic choke with its choke pull off features. I think the electronic solid state switch is a much simpler arrangement than the manual ignition points which needed to be replaced every 10-20,000 miles. The centrifugal and vacuum spark advance set-up seems more complicated to me than the microprocessor controlled ignition.
While the old vacuum wiper motor was simpler than an electric wiper motor, the fuel pump had to have a vacuum booster section. I never quite understood why it cost more to ge electic wipers on some cars back in the 1950’s when the fuel pump was simpler as opposed to vacuum wipers that had a more complicated fuel pump.
I’ll admit that the present HVAC system in today’s cars is much more complicated than the old box with a secondary radiator and fan for a heater. The cowl ventilator which disappeared in the 1950’s was an easy way to bring fresh air into the car. I’m not certain, however, that I would want to go back to the old days.
Even today’s radios are simpler than those of the 1950’s. In the tube type radio, there was a vibrator that would pulsate the 6 or 12 volt direct current from the battery so that it could be stepped up by a trnasformer to 90 or more volts, and then rectified back to direct current for the plate voltage required by the vacuum tubes. Let’s also not forget that the tube filament drew quite a bit of current. We didn’t need to use the old running out of gas trick when out on a date–all we had to do was play the radio for an hour or so and the battery would be too low to crank the engine.
My point is that in some ways, modern electronics has made things simpler because there are no moving parts. Theoretically, a computer chip should never wear out if it is made properly. What happens is that these chips are susceptible to voltage spikes.
I think if you are looking for a simple car with few gadgets to break down, the best you can do is get a baseline economy car without any features. For example, my 98 Civic DX has no power windows, no power locks, no curise control (which I regret), no CD player, no ABS, etc. It has air bags and crumple zones. At the time that I bought this car, I was shopping for a car with a similar lack of extras. I would have gotten no radio at all of that had been an option with this car.
It looks like Honda has power windows on all new Civics and power locks on most of them. The Fit is the same way. So you might look at the new hatchbacks made by Toyota, Scion, and Nissan. They seem to have these features as options. You might also look at economy cars made by Detroit’s Big Three. You can probably find some of them that still have these features as “optional equipment.”
…maintenance costs to maintain a 26 year old car over 416k miles likely exceed buying decent newer two cars(disposable) over the same timespan will yield less fuel consumption, less emissions…
You don?t seem to be including the energy used to make those disposable cars. The plant uses a lot of energy and emits a lot of emissions. If you include those in your calculations, I don?t think you are right. Also, if you don?t pay cash for your disposable cars, make sure you include interest payments in your calculations. With those items included, I think you will find that the older car is always more cost effective and more ecologically sound.
Amen to that!! After I went thru with changing timing belt, & a good reliable working water pump, tensioner, bearing, pulley, etc… I decided to go back in time & buy my next car & subsequent cars with timing chain (at least) & save all the trouble & HEADACHE. I have peace of mind & save me some money I don’t have to keep thinking, wait, when is it due for a new belt? How about the water pump? Since they don’t make rear wheel drive cars anymore except the big gas guzzlers & some PU’s & some SUV’s, I have to live with it. It’s a pain to change those struts as compare to shocks, plus the CV joints & boots. Whew!!!
My cost is right around $.30 per mile, as compared to about $.50 or .60 for a “decent” new car. I drive about 40K miles per year with an average repair/maintenance cost of about $3000 per year, about $.15 per mile for fuel, and no depreciation. I can continue to drive at that cost indefinitely (including planned major maintenance like engine rebuilds and transmission replacements), that sure beats writing a $60,000 check for a new plastic car that I wouldn’t want to drive anyway (sorry, but I’m not interested in driving disposable junk). Keeping any new car on the road indefinitely would probably be cost prohibitive, sort like trying to keep my kitchen appliance working for more ten ten years.
If I was forced to buy something new, I really don’t know what I would get. There does not seem to be anything available without a lot of extra nonsense installed. I understand that I would be stuck paying for air-bags, but I could easily make them disappear. I would probably just buy something cheap/efficient (like a basic TDI) and plan on periodically replacing it. It’s really too bad that the manufacturers have been driven to produce junk by the mandates (and by the market).
Fortunately, I will never have to buy a new car.
You can disable the driver’s airbag legally if you are very short. My neighbor’s wife is 5-0 and she did just that on a Honda CRV. Just for interest, I kept track of the number of trips to the garage for service or repairs the first 100,000 miles for several cars I have owned. The results may surprise you:
- 1965 Dodge Dart V8, 39 trips, scrapped at 154,000 miles (13 years)
- 1976 Ford Granada V8, 56 trips, sold at 108,000 miles (badly rusted)
- 1984 Chevrolet Impala V8, 28 trips, given to son at 200,000 miles, resold at 281,000, still running.
- 1988 Chevrolet Caprice, 33 trips, sold at 141,000, still running
- 1994 Nissan Sentra, 18 trips, current mileage 115,000 and still in like-new condition
What stands out here is the very high reliability of the Japanese cars, and the high service needs of older US cars. High service needs do not necessarily mean expensive operation. The Granada was fun to drive but it was a real dog for maintenance & repairs, and rusted out prematurely.
The Japanese often refer to US cars as “do it yourself kits”, based on all the after sale work and frequent attention they used to require.
In buying a new car, it should be high quality, high volume and the manufacturer should hopefully stay in business. Spare parts supply is a real issue with low volume reliable cars. Volvo and Mercedes, and now Toyota can be trusted to keep spares available; the high volume of Toyota ensures an AFTERMARKET as well.
New England where I live would easily turn a 26 year old car into dust due to Salt on our roads. Its not a economical choice here to do the body and undercarriage work to maintain a vehicle that long.
I consider 15 years+ a good life for a vehicle in New England. Many last longer but mostly are rarely used in winter.
I would probably kill off the air bag in anything new I bought (legal or not, I just don’t like/trust them). I have no plans to buy anything that new anyway.
Good point about parts supplies, but I’m not a big fan of most after-market parts, so I only buy cars with a guaranteed supply of OEM parts (I recently got a quote from my benz dealer for a crate engine for my '82, just in case).
Personally, I’m not concerned about the number of “trips to the shop,” I tend to over-maintain cars and replace anything that looks like it’s thinking about failing. If something actually breaks, it means I failed to adequately maintain the car. I would rather go “to the shop” more often than have something fail unexpectedly. If you are going to keep old cars in “like new” condition, some preventive maintenance is a reality.
I don’t know anything about asian cars (except that I don’t really like driving them) and I gave up on domestics about 20 years ago.
"New England where I live would easily turn a 26 year old car into dust due to Salt on our roads. Its not a economical choice here to do the body and undercarriage work to maintain a vehicle that long.
I consider 15 years+ a good life for a vehicle in New England. Many last longer but mostly are rarely used in winter."
True, I used to live in RI, MA, and NH, but I escaped. It’s amazing that they still use salt back there. You really need to own a winter beater if you live there. I still own a '73 that I had when I lived there, but it was always parked for the winter. Just buy some appliance to drive in the winter so you can enjoy a real car the rest of the year.
I will never understand why you call all new cars “plastic” and “disposable.” Your love of old cars makes sense to me. Your disdain of all new cars, however, is completely illogical. They are not all plastic and they are not all disposable. There isn’t a single car out there that has a plastic frame or a plastic engine, and plastics have been proven to be safer, especially when used to make the dashboard and interior door panels. There is a guy who has had a Ford Ranger for more than 500,000 miles.
Will you explain the absence of depreciation with your vehicle? Is it because it is only worth salvage value?
If you looked objectively at the newer cars, I think you might not want one for yourself, but you might see some value in most of the new developments that have been done right. Look at Triedaq’s post below for examples.