Shopping For A New Car Sucks

Without Counting, I Must Have At Least 10 Or 12 Boats. They Are Small Boats, No Cruisers Or Anything. 2 Are Canoes, 3 Are Sunfish Sailboats, 1 Is An Outboard Ski Boat, 1 Is An Outboard Pontoon Boat, 1 Is A Sea-Doo PWC, 1 Is A 12’ Aluminum Car Top Outboard, And A Couple Other Boats And Various Outboard Motors, Oh, And 2 Paddleboats.

Living On The Lake For A Few Decades, They’ve Accumulated Over The Years. It’s Like Living At A Damn Marina.

I actually don’t use the ski boat much at all since my kids grew up and moved away. It’s just kind of a pain trailering and putting a 2000 lb. capacity hoist out in the lake. We tend to use the pontoon boat the most for outings and it carries lots of people and is a good fishing and swimming platform.

The PWC isn’t used much any more because no kids around. It’s fun to bomb around on when the hot weather sets in, but again there’s the trailer, launching, and hoist to put out. Boating season is only a couple months long here.

My top picks for all around enjoyment would be the Sunfish and paddle boats, probably because they are the most relaxing and easiest to maintain, launch, and store, although the pontoon boat is must for lake living.

CSA

@“Ed Frugal”

If you get your first boat, you will become aware of the condition they call 10ft itis :smiley:

Based on what little I have read, I would get the 2up waverunner first. You can do almost everything you mentioned with that. Have the family at the local beach and take turns riding it or pulling them around on a tube. You can fish from it or just have a heck of a time riding it. Super simple to launch and cheap(er) to operate. You could tow a waverunner trailer with the family car too…

My puddle jumper rig is a Vlite 14’ row boat with a 50lb thrust troller. I made a set of wheels for it so I can launch it just about anywhere by walking it to the lake and heaving it in. Seats 3 comfortably in swivel seats. I’ve been on very limited access lakes where people have wondered “how the heck I got that thing in here”. I can also tow and launch this with my Camry if I don’t want to use the truck. Some good deals on boats this time of year in the colder regions :wink:

“Based on what little I have read, I would get the 2up waverunner first. You can do almost everything you mentioned with that. Have the family at the local beach and take turns riding it or pulling them around on a tube.”

Check your state boating laws first. Our laws require at least a 3-up PWC to pull a tube or skier. You need a driver, a separate “spotter,” usually sitting backwards, and room for an injured or incapacitated “towee.”

The Sheriff Marine Patrol (during busy times) or the DNR officers will be observing from afar and will be on you like stink on a skunk if laws are not followed.

My Sea-Doo PWC is a 3 passenger machine.

CSA

You guys are just over thinking this whole question. You can not apply rational, reasonable, bean counting principles to a decision to buy a boat, unless you are a commercial fisherman. The only logical thing to do is forget the boat completely.

If that’s not acceptable, then just buy what makes you smile, and the heck with being reasonable.

Yeah forget the boat, buy the motor. As a dealer told me you buy the motor and we throw the boat in with it. Boats aren’t worth anything but motors are.

I’m not applying those misguided principles to the idea of buying a boat- that’s already been decided. Now we’re (attempting) rationalizing which one to buy FIRST!

just buy what makes you smile, and the heck with being reasonable.

You can’t throw all caution out the window…you’ll end up trying to fish or tow a tube from a 1000hp cigarette boat :smiley:

@Bing no truer words were ever spoken!

Just offering sympathies. I’ve also been car shopping. You’d think it would be fun for a car enthusiast to go car shopping but it is terrible

Quoting @wentwest , " You can not apply rational, reasonable, bean counting principles to a decision to buy a boat, unless you are a commercial fisherman. The only logical thing to do is forget the boat completely." Unfortunately, very true. My situation: I’m in my 40’s now, my last surviving parent died earlier this year, and I have had a couple of health scares of my own in the past few years. Its becoming very clear to me that someday I will be dead, and there are certain things I’d like to do and experiences I’d like to have while I’m still here. I’ve always been very focused on saving for the future, retirement investing, paying off my house, working all the overtime I could get, etc. but at some point one has to start . . . living. . . life? for lack of a better phrase. Its very difficult to change a mindset one has held for a lifetime.

I’ve heard all the boat lore, “A boat is just a hole in the water you pour money into.” Boat stands for B.ring O.n A.nother T.housand. I think I mentioned a more cost-effective option in a previous post. Instead of buying a boat, I could just talk about getting a boat ad nauseum until all my friends and co-workers run the other way when they see me coming. To quote George Carlin, “I don’t have hobbies, hobbies cost money. Interests, on the other hand, are quite free.”

Quoting @Hankscorpio , " You’d think it would be fun for a car enthusiast to go car shopping but it is terrible " Agree. For one thing, i HATE dealing with commissioned salespeople. They just tell you whatever they think you want to hear because they just want to close the sale, can’t say as I blame them, that’s their livelihood, I just don’t relate to that mentality and don’t like being around it. Actually, I don’t like BUYING anything, I’d prefer to count my money rather than spend it.

Another problem is there’s so much “freedom of choice” as to be paralyzing. So many different vehicles to choose from, then so many trim lines within models. There’s like 28 or 38 different ways to configure a new pickup truck. Bed length, cab size, V6 or V8, transmission, color, upholstery, and on and on. There are 12 different trim lines on the Toyota Corolla, and you just know the one you build on the website won’t be available at a dealer - they’ll either try to talk you into the one they DO have in stock, or perhaps you can order the one you want - if you’re willing to pay full sticker price. . .

Bear in mind that I’m the kind of guy who stands in the supermarket aisle with a calculator to determine which ketchup is the cheapest per ounce; I’ve actually put stamps on envelopes and sent letters to ice cream companies to complain about 1/2 gallon cartons being downsized.

@“Ed Frugal”

“Bear in mind that I’m the kind of guy who stands in the supermarket aisle with a calculator to determine which ketchup is the cheapest per ounce”

I certainly hope you’re joking . . . ?! :cold_sweat:

At my local supermarket, the price tag on the shelf lists the price for the bottle of ketchup. And it also lists . . . the price per ounce

If your supermarket doesn’t list the price per ounce, that’s pretty low of them. Because I’d say a very significant percentage of shoppers are interested in that kind of information

So either your supermarket is doing you a disservice by not providing such information :unamused:

Or . . . :wink:

Hmmm. A co-worker told me the story once of a conversation he had with another co-worker that was stationed way up in Northern Minnesota. He was very frugal and never wanted to waste any money. The guy I worked with did lots of things, spent his money, and never had much left over. When they were discussing their different life styles he said “well when I’m old and sitting in that rocking chair on the porch, I’ll be thinking of all the hunting and fishing trips I took and the other things I did. What are you going to think about?” The next week the guy turned up with a new Caddy. I guess there’s a happy medium but money after all is meant to buy things.

@Bing

That guy had a point

However . . . if you indulge yourself too much, you’ll never be able to buy that house with that house with the porch in the first place

And maybe you won’t ever be able to afford to retire

Everything in moderation

What’s right?

Spend every last cent, because you can’t take it with you

or . . .

Pace yourself and leave something behind for the kids

@db4690: “I certainly hope you’re joking . . . ?! :cold_sweat:” Well, I was looking for a short way to say this because I didn’t want to go too far off-topic, but here is the long version. The calculator is mostly a metaphor because most of the math I can do in my head. But the “unit-price” tags tend to vary from store to store. Supermarket “A” will list the ‘price per ounce’, supermarket “B” will list the ‘price per pound’, and supermarket “C” will list the ‘price per each’. Sometimes you see this with items like soap, the price per ‘each’ will be lower, but the bars are 1/2 an ounce smaller than the other store. Hence math is necessary. Once during a conversation with a co-worker, I mentioned that most 18 ounce peanut butter containers have been downsized to 15.6 ounces, and most 64 ounce orange juice cartons have been downsized to 59 ounces, and he had the same exact look on his face as an 8 year old kid who has just been told that Santa Claus isn’t real.

I try to pay attention to stuff like this, and I have changed the brands of stuff I buy on several occasions because of this kind of stuff. Whenever I’m in a store, if I see stuff that I use, even if I’m not there that day to buy that item, I make a mental note of the price and compare it in my head to what it costs at the store I do buy it at, always looking for a bargain.

Its a state of mind, and when you live your entire life that way, you can’t just turn it off. I was trying to help my mother save $1.59 on a carton of pudding cups at a time in her life when her out of pocket medical bills were over $3,000 a week. My mother even though her faculties were failing at that point saw the ridiculousness in this and pointed it out to me. I couldn’t explain it beyond just saying I guess I’m just wired that way.

I totally get the post @GeorgeSanJose made about his co-worker who came into 10’s of millions of dollars and bought a very high end car and took it to Costco for tires probably because it didn’t occur to him that he didn’t need to go to Costco for tires. (Although I guess he made that post in another thread.) I remember reading an article about self-made millionaires where one guy who was supposedly worth north of $20 million said his wife still bought 2-ply toilet paper and took it home and unrolled it to make 2 one-ply rolls from 1 two-ply roll. When you grow up without a lot of money, that kind of thing becomes a way of life.

In regards to @Bing 's most recent post: I do very physically demanding work, for a company that becomes increasingly impossible to work for every year. A lot of the people I work with live hand-to-mouth lifestyles, some of them well into their 50’s and 60’s and can’t afford to retire or even take a few days off because they don’t have any money even for next month’s bills. I don’t want to be 60 or 70 years old, limping around eating oxycontin pills like tic tacs, going in to work thinking, gee, I sure hope I can work fast enough to not get fired this week so I can collect another paycheck and not be homeless this month. I want to be long gone and forgotten from there by the time I turn 60.

Of course most of my colleagues take the opposite attitude, “I work hard for my money, I want to enjoy it TODAY.” Me, I work too hard for my money to hand it over to some finance company, and. . . . aw, heck, I don’t want to get too preachy and off-topic. Oops.

Ed,you are hitting very close to Home for Me,the only way I can operate now is to continually lower expectations,my last remaining superlative or goal-is to not die on the job(and a hickory sapling that I had dodged for 5 minutes,almost did the deed)I watch these greedy people around here make money hand over fist,while the complacent workers are happy to be making enough money to drink and carouse,through most of the weekend(and I was deemed a gripe a$$ when I complained about the bad seat in a spine killer Cat Truck(no longer help these cats) And at the beginning,they wouldnt even furnish earplugs(the President said"dont rev the chainsaw so high and you wont need earplugs" driving an old B model Mack without a muffler I had to stick kleenex plugs in my ears.it goes on,they are probaly the 2nd biggest taxpayer in the county were I live,while I can barely pay the taxes on my meager belongings(at least I own a few things better then most of the World,but the medical costs are a hassle)
A new cheapo econobox?forget it.

Supermarket "A" will list the 'price per ounce', supermarket "B" will list the 'price per pound', and supermarket "C" will list the 'price per each'.
Move to a state that has unit pricing laws.

Yikes, @kmccune , sounds like you’ve got it worse than I do. I’m in a Union shop so the company at least takes safety procedures seriously, but they constantly threaten to close the whole plant because wages are too high, health insurance too expensive, we get too much vacation time (nobody quits so we’ve got lotsa guys with 20 - 30+ years who get 5 & 6 weeks vacation). I guess its the same everywhere, they want you to work faster and faster for less money and fewer benefits.

Someone actually died on the job where I work a few years ago. Went to the bathroom and dropped dead. I told my co-workers if that should happen to me I want you to throw my name up to management for as long as you work here. As in, anytime they try to write you up for production, say something along the lines of, “You’re not going to kill me the way you killed ‘Ed’!”

I think you can buy those foam squeeze-em earplugs at Dollar Tree or places like it. Problem I have is I always end up buying a bunch of junk food / snacks while I’m in there cause, well, its only a buck (each).

@MikeInNH , you understand what I’m talking about, but even the article in your link stated, “Even when unit pricing is mandatory, enforcement is weak and many stores fail to post per-unit prices, as a recent investigation by the Salem, Ore. Statesman Journal discovered.”

To elaborate on this statement, " I guess its the same everywhere, they want you to work faster and faster for less money and fewer benefits" and at the risk of being shunned for being off-topic, I feel compelled to post an excerpt from one of my favorite George Carlin bits, from the track “Dumb Americans” on the album “Life Is Worth Losing”:

"The owners of this country don’t want a population capable of critical thinking. They don’t want people smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they’re being {expletive deleted} by a system that threw them overboard 30 years ago. They want OBEDIENT WORKERS, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all the increasingly {expletive deleted} jobs with the longer hours, the lower pay, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime, and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And now, they’re coming, for your Social Security money. They want your retirement benefits, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? Sooner or later, they’ll get it all from you. . . . "

I’ve seen this scenario play out all around me for the past 20 years, I think in the next year it will be my turn, but I’m kind of looking forward to starting over doing something else, but that’s another story. No question in my mind the U.S. is devolving into a 3rd world country, and that makes me so sad on every level, not like I can do anything to stop it though. I can vote, but the districts are gerrymandered such that the incumbent always gets 70+% of the vote, and when a new one does get in, they quickly get bought up by the special interests. Heavy Sigh.

Well@Ed,I think we can touch bases,you are apparently capable of critical thinking and I applaud you.I too, read the price per oz.in the supermarket and have developed a method of estimating that has served me well as I head into my 7th decade of life.
As Gordon Lightfoot said in “Don Quixote”,“I have seen the strong survive and I have seen the lean grow weak”.
People under estimate,the value of rounding and estimation,I used to work for an employer that was astounded that I could almost instantaneously estimate the tonnage of fertilizer and components(I simply created a base notation that used the standard weights of the components we used)
Heres to critical and free thinkers.Math is our friend.

I’ve been accused of being too analytical, but it has served me we will in the past. My wife loves maple syrup on her pancakes, while I just buy the least expensive syrup from Walmart. The maple syrup costs 11 TIMES as much as the regular stuff.

When in a supermarket any food that says “natural”, “organic” or some other claimed superiority is ALWAYS much more expensive. That does not mean that our family does not eat well; we just don’t get sucked in by hype,

Got to admit Doc,I cant stand maple syrup(to much pure maple syrup isnt good for you anyway)I like Log Cabin or any other reasonable syrup much better,just because something is "natural"doesnt necessarily mean its good for you(snake and bee venom are “natural” look what they can do to you)just because your family always favored a certain auto maker doesnt always mean they are the best,claimed superiority doesnt sell me.

Doc, I wish what you say weren’t true, but it is.
As regards syrup, I like Log Cabin because it has no high-fructose corn syrup, but in truth any syrup including honey is too much sugar. None of it is necessary, and none of it is really healthy.

HOWEVER, life’s short. I don’t do drugs, don’t drink, don’t smoke, can’t chase women anymore, and can’t afford to gallivant around the globe. If I only ever did what was good for me what’s left would be bland and boring. A sugary coating on my morning pancakes is one of the few vices I have left… I ain’t givin’ it up! :smiley: