Therein lies the problem, the good legitimate tuners like Justin are (would be) being criminalized just the same as non legitimate tuners…
Justin has discussed a little about what all is involved by getting some of his tunes CARB compliant and it sounds ridicules, when members living in Cali and other strict states have passed the emissions testing with non CARB compliant tunes of his, meaning they are compliant without the cert and only a few states have started looking for the aftermarket tunes no matter if the vehicle passes or not… To me, if it passes it should pass no matter what… He has jumped through the fiery hoops money and time wise just to get the 1st one CARB compliant, he is now working to get other compliant…
Right, but this doesn’t affect them. There is a majority population that is incapable or unwilling to do their own work. The comment was suggesting DIY are incapable of properly diagnosing their cars…
Tools I understand, But this isn’t a tool. It’s a license to access something I already paid for and should own. How would you feel if that 3/8" ratchet no longer worked unless you paid a subscription on it?
Or perhaps a bit less paranoid than some. The news sells on fear and awe…
Spend some time in the retail auto repair business. You will find out how true that statement is.
I disagree. Software and access is definitely a tool. It’s just a tool with a limited lifespan and expiration date.
Cars get stolen on a regular basis. My friend who had her Charger stolen out of her driveway may wish that Gateway Access was a bit more secure than it is now.
You have to remember that the folks bringing their cars to a shop are not necessarily the ones doing the work on their own cars. So it may be an invalid or skewed sample of the public. Sure there are folks who botch the job first but there are many jobs the shops never see at all. For many years I just did my own work and the work I hired was selective. I didn’t grow up on a farm but many around me did and these folks are quite competent in general repairs and common sense.
In over 50 years of car ownership, the only car theft was my son’s car in Minneapolis. I have never had a car vandalized or stolen. Never been robbed, never threatened. I only armed myself to protect against a rabid raccoon. Also experiences and culture on the east and west coasts can be quite different than the rest of the country. Just sayin when you speak it is based on your own experiential factors which may only apply to a small section of the world.
You’re not reading it correctly then. This is not software, you’re buying a license to access the car’s computer using your own scanner. You have to register an approved scanner with them before they will allow the car’s computer to respond to certain requests. I own the car and I own the scanner. I have to register my scanner with them and pay a fee.
To wit:
The Security Gateway Module (SGM/SGW) uses an encryption algorithm to isolate most diagnostic requests from aftermarket diagnostic devices except the original equipment or devices registered with FCA and pay a yearly subscription.
Car’s have been stolen since they were first built. If you think a gateway algorithm is going to stop it from happening, I have some prime bridge real estate for sale… It’s been a cat and mouse game since the dawn of (automobile) time.
I was speaking in general, not entirely. I have had friends, acquaintances who performed their own repairs successfully with minimal assistance. The people that seek help from automotive forums seem to replace parts for two weeks before stumbling upon the original problem.
This security enhancement does affect the do-it-yourself vehicle owner who budgets $22 for a PCM code reader. These are also the people who post: the ABS light is on but there are no (PCM) faults shown on the scanner?
Those vehicle owners may have passed a state emissions test, state and federal test procedures do not compare. During federal testing, all exhaust and evaporative emission are collected and measured by weight, it is impractical to perform this test for biennial state registration purposes.
During state testing, the exhaust stream is sampled and measured for parts-per-million or in percentages under very limited operating conditions. Exhaust quality and volume are not measured under a full range of operation.
Consider the Volkswagen diesel emission cheat; vehicles met emission requirements while stationary but not while driving. An investigation was needed to expose this.
His 9.0 tune is the one he had CARB certified… Owners running that exact tune can now obtain the CARB Executive Order (EO) documentation, making it legal for use in all 50 states…
My point is that the calibration itself is the same tune it was before it received CARB certification… The certification process doesn’t necessarily mean the tune changed, it means it has gone through the required testing and approval process…
I’m currently running the latest 9.2 tune… It isn’t CARB certified yet, but he’s actively working on getting it approved… He’s also pursuing certification for additional tunes, but it’s a lengthy, expensive, and time consuming process… Getting one tune certified is difficult enough, let alone several…
Another nice benefit is that all of his tunes include the latest Toyota ECU updates at no additional charge… Before installing any tune, he first updates the ECU with Toyota’s latest software, then applies the tune…
One other thing worth mentioning: if your vehicle has emissions related modifications such as deleted catalytic converters or other changes that would affect emissions, they won’t install the tune… They only tune vehicles that retain the required emissions equipment…
??? What makes you think I don’t know what I’ve been paying for and getting for the past several years. I understand Secure Gateway perfectly. It’s not software, it’s access. I own a high end aftermarket scan tool and to use it to its full capability I need to register it with the OEM. What’s the problem? If you choose not to register your device you can still use it on the car, you’re just limited to generic OBD-II parameters.
I own my smartphone but have to pay a monthly subscription to use it (that was true with land lines as well). I own my laptop but if I want to connect to the internet and participate in CarTalk I have to pay every month for web access. I own my TV but I have to pay every month to watch baseball games.
I don’t think it’s going to stop it at all, and I don’t like it anymore than you do. But the fact is cities and states are suing manufacturers because they say it’s too easy to steal cars. And states are suing manufacturers because they say it’s too hard to repair cars. We the public don’t even know what we want.
Exactly. The annual cost for Secure Gateway access is less than I spent for pizza for my 16 year old’s sleepover party yesterday.
I don’t believe we should forgo future vetting of modifications based on one success story; there are too many irresponsible people in this country.
I would like the freedom to perform modifications to my vehicles; however those options have been exploited by others. Anyone who has been blasted by a cloud of diesel particulate from a pickup truck would feel modifications need to be regulated. And how does this look for the manufacture of the truck whose name is on the tailgate? Do manufactures possess the right to protect their image?
I detest guys that are rolling coal to make a statement . . . like the guys that pull in front of bicycle riders and then roll coal right in their faces
I find it to be incredibly offensive to everyone around them
And maybe that’s why it’s done?
Very petty
Kind of like belching loudly at a nice dinner someone took a long time to prepare
Gale Banks (bankspower) prides himself on making huge power from diesel trucks without the smoke, and some/most being emissions legal and CARB compliant…
So you get more HP, torque and better fuel mileage…
According to the articles, I cannot reset the OBD faults after a repair unless I register and pay a fee. This is preventing me from using a tool I already bought and is perfectly capable of performing the job it was designed to do unless I pay a ransom to the OEM.
This is not using any of their infrastructure. The cell phone and other examples you used are ongoing use of infrastructure.
To someone that makes their living off fixing cars, I would expect you might not understand why this is a problem to the DIY person. If I can amortize this small expense across 1000’s of vehicle repairs, it seems like a minor inconvenience. That’s exactly what they are counting on.
OEMs have been fighting for years to restrict access. This is just another excuse they are using to get their way even though they continue to lose the right to repair battles in courts and legislation…
What bothers me with the right to repair laws is that I thought this was settled decades ago with IBM and Burroughs. Those 2 companies were notorious for blocking any company from repairing their equipment and/or adding external hardware like Disk drives or tape drives that they didn’t make. It was ruled they are NOT allowed to block this information and in fact MUST publish very specific specs so third companies can do this.
So, just because it’s not automotive we have to start all over again.
Way back when my CRT went black, I tried to get a schematic for it to replace the power supply. Even though made by Zenith, omly authorized GM repair facilities had this information. I just bought a used one, but I thought it a little strange that I was restricted from a wiring diagram. Same thing with a radio problem-only delco shops could fix it. My dad had the same issue with his Plymouth but I was still able to fix it without the documentation. Seems like you should be able to buy documentation for internal devices. I can understand they would not like modifications being made but if you try and end up wrecking it, it’s my dime, not theirs. Competition has always been an integral part of capitalism so seems like it should be encouraged not restricted.
