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RIP Scion

There are just as many Toyota dealers in my area (NH) as there are any other major manufacturer.

In the Southern part of NH where I live…there’s ONE Ford dealer within 10 miles…there are at least 7 Asian/American dealers within 10 miles. Closest GM dealer is 20+ miles away…Chrysler dealer is in Manchester about 24 miles away.

Agree there are not many Scion dealers around. In our area we have 6 Toyota dealers, but only one is a dual Scion/Toyota dealer.

CSA has a point about the number of Asian car dealers. Where I live there is a stand alone Nissan dealer and a Honda dealer. The Toyota dealer is part of a Chevrolet/Buick operation. Other than that, in the NW part of OK there are no Asian car dealers.
It’s either go south or east to OK City or Tulsa, respectively, a 100 or 125 miles or to the west. The latter means 250 miles and up; one way.

By comparison there are droves of Big Three dealers; even in towns with populations as sparse as a 1000 or so people.

"CSA has a point about the number of Asian car dealers. Where I live there is a stand alone Nissan dealer and a Honda dealer. The Toyota dealer is part of a Chevrolet/Buick operation. Other than that, in the NW part of OK there are no Asian car dealers.
It’s either go south or east to OK City or Tulsa, respectively, a 100 or 125 miles or to the west. The latter means 250 miles and up; one way.

By comparison there are droves of Big Three dealers; even in towns with populations as sparse as a 1000 or so people."

This Dealer Location Situation Is Not Surprising To Me. I Have A Theory. Mind You This Is A Theory That Explains General Trends And Of Course There Are Exceptions.

Look At A Geopolitical Map Of The United States With Red And Blue Colors Representing Political Persuasions. You’ll See Very Large Concentrations Of One Persuasion In/Near Major Cities. You’ll See The Other Persuasion Covering The Vast Majority Of The Country And More Likely Located In Rural America.

Use your map. Now consider that the more liberal (progressive) members of our society are concentrated in more urban areas. These are folks that include people who would support more liberal politicians and (very shocking to me) even a Guy campaigning as a Socialist and doing quite well! Socialism is not traditionally American. This persuasion has more members who are likely to abandon American traditions (baseball, apple pie, and Chevrolets).

Now then, (Uh, uh, check the map!) most of America is home to conservative people who are much less likely to abandon American traditions and our culture. They remember wars fought defending these traditions. Therefore, Since GM, Ford, and Chrysler have been part of our culture and since by definition, conservatives want to maintain our values and culture, they tend to not support Asian and European cars brand as much.

So, it makes sense to me that the dealers tend to focus there efforts where most of their customer base is concentrated. I’m not criticizing, but merely giving my observations and opinion.

CSA

Look At A Geopolitical Map Of The United States With Red And Blue Colors Representing Political Persuasions. You'll See Very Large Concentrations Of One Persuasion In/Near Major Cities. You'll See The Other Persuasion Covering The Vast Majority Of The Country And More Likely Located In Rural America.

As NOTHING to do with Blue or red states…but everything to do with how close to a Coast you live. The concentration of the Asian dealers are mainly on the coasts.

NH has the second largest governing body in the world. And we’re 75% Republican…and in Southern NH there are more Asian dealers then the Big-3. There’s a large concentration of Asian dealers in Georgia and the Carolinas (all red states).

Now then, (Uh, uh, check the map!) most of America is home to conservative people who are much less likely to abandon American traditions and our culture.

The square area of the US may be more to more conservatives…but this country is only 38%. The rest consider themselves Liberal/Progressive or Moderate. But the term Conservative is so ambiguous…it’s hard to tell. Conservative means different things to different areas of the country. In the bible belt the ONE QUESTION to determine if you’re conservative is Abortion…PERIOD…nothing else matters. Mid-West it’s main Guns. Other states it’s things like welfare.

conservatives want to maintain our values and culture

Yea right!!! Who’s the conservative spokesman??? Rush??? Great values…Draft dodging drug addict.

Looks like Japanese car dealer location is population (profit) driven, here’s Honda:

Here’s Toyota:

So, Mike, You Don’t Back The Theory 100%?
Anyhow, you do recognize a dealer network with some holes in it. (“The concentration of the Asian dealers are mainly on the coasts.”) On that we agree.
CSA :smile:

So, Mike, You Don't Back The Theory 100%?

I wasn’t the one with the theory…it was YOU. All I did was disprove your theory.

Everyone I know is conservative (like attracts like), and we all own riceburners. Conservatives tend IMHO to look for reliability, longevity, and affordability. We’re all technical types.

You’ve certainly presented a good theory. Perhaps my neck of the woods just isn’t representative. However, when you think about the amount of the market that riceburners have taken away from the old “big three”, all of whom have either gone bankrupt or teetered on the verge of bankruptcy over the past thirty or so years, I have to believe that ricer dealers are plenty prevalent nationwide.

I think those dealer maps match up pretty much to this population density map:

@texases
Interesting maps. Have you got a Geopolitical (red/blue - Republican/Democrat) map to put up?

We have very few Democrats around here and no Asian car dealers. We have lots of Republicans and lots of American car dealers.
CSA

Here is a link to various maps showing areas by political affiliation.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=map%20of%20the%20u.s.%20by%20political%20party&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=map%20of%20the%20u.s.%20by%20political%20party&sc=0-25&sp=-1&sk=

The only real thing they show is that the Midwest and plains states are more conservative overall that the perimeter states. Since it has no relationship to population density, it can’t be meaningfully compared in any way to the dealership maps.

To me, the dealership maps look just like the population density map. I don’t need another cause for the dealership distribution. The fact that the big 3 have huge (but shrunken) dealership numbers is more a result of their history, not politics.

To me, the dealership maps look just like the population density map. I don't need another cause for the dealership distribution. The fact that the big 3 have huge (but shrunken) dealership numbers is more a result of their history, not politics.

Exactly…Politics have NOTHING to do with it.

Dealership closures did spike around 2010 (see attached: note dates)


however that seems to have stabilized.

I agree that the Big 3 dealership numbers and sales performance are far more a result of their history than of politics. I’d also state that dealership density for GM, Ford, and the ricers dealers is driven solely by population density, except perhaps with the Detroit area. And that may have even changed.

There are, however, anomalies, mostly strictly economically driven. The are far more dealers of Bentleys, Audis, Lambos, Ferraris, and Rolls near my son’s house in the San Fernando Valley than there are in NH. Or even perhaps New England overall.

We have Audi dealers in NH…Bently, Lambo Farraris and Rolls - need to go to Boston or perhaps NYC. NH doesn’t have the population. NH has little over 1million.

Conservative car buying - Years ago in NH Sunday mornings on the Local TV channel there was this very very very conservative talk show host. He owned something called Rondo’s (or something like that) in Hookset NH. They sold truck caps and other automotive related parts.

He got on his soapbox one day ranting and raving about the Liberal car buyers. Saying they would come to his friends dealership knowing the price of the cars and what they payed for it. That kind of liberal car buying was going to drive his friend out of business.

I like both xBs - LOTS of headroom!

@texases This is exactly the reason Scion failed! No offense but the car was targeted at 20 somethings (which I don’t believe you are) but actually appealed to 40 pluses like a friend of mine and stole sales from the Toyota brand itself. I never saw 20 somethings driving Scions, except the FRS, so they missed their mark entirely. Honda made the same mistake with the Element, Nissan with the Cube. Kia was hawking the Soul with those hipster hamsters but they’ve backed away from that. Maybe the sales hit the skids, too.

The Same Mountain Bike , did you have one of the first gen SL/SC/SW’s? Those were reputed to be the good ones and high water mark for the company, but it was all downhill after that. Even CR rated the first Saturns as being “better than average” in terms of reliability, which was an order of magnitude better than anything else GM was putting out at the time.

“Exactly…Politics have NOTHING to do with it.”

@MikeInNH
I did a quick search on my slow computer, but it didn’t take long to confirm my suspicions. Oh, and remember I said, “This Dealer Location Situation Is Not Surprising To Me. I Have A Theory. Mind You This Is A Theory That Explains General Trends And Of Course There Are Exceptions.”
Here are some quotes that will paint a picture for you.

US News And World Report survey:

“The two groups differ on pickup trucks, which have become the de facto automotive symbol of red states: In the survey, 15 percent of Republicans drive them, compared with just over 3 percent of Democrats.”

Domestic and Foreign Policy
"It may not surprise you that the survey found import cars to be a more popular choice among Democrats than Republicans, with 71% of Dems claiming to drive one. "
"In the survey, Republicans endorsed Ford and GM cars by almost a two-to-one margin compared with Democrats, who preferred Hondas and Toyotas. Chrysler (including its Dodge and Jeep brands) appeared to be common ground, where voters on either side of the aisle were equally likely to own one."

Washington Times survey:

“The Volvo-driving liberal and the redneck in a Chevy pickup are long-held stereotypes. But a map of car ownership - produced by R.L. Polk & Co. - overlaid on the electoral map reveals the surprising extent to which how we vote corresponds with what we drive.”

“Blue-staters on each coast, from Los Angeles to Seattle and from Boston to the District, are the most likely to drive foreign cars. Domestic brands have their highest levels of market share in the mostly conservative interior of the country.”

“In some blue states - where a Democrat has won at least three of the last four presidential contests - foreign cars have as much as 60 percent of the market, as measured by vehicle registrations. It is mostly in red states - Republican strongholds - where domestic cars have 74 percent of the market or more.”

“Its true that liberal Democrats are the least likely group to consider an American car, according to a recent Gallup poll. And conservative Republicans clearly prefer domestic cars.”
“Twenty-two percent of liberal Democrats say they would never consider an American car, according to a recent Gallup poll, the highest of any group. Among conservative Republicans, 14 percent would only consider a foreign car.”

I had no idea originally that my hunches were correct, but there you go. You can refute this, but I remain convinced now more than ever.
CSA