Exactly, once one can afford not to do these things they are only going to do them as a “hobby” or because it happens to be more convenient at the moment. I happen to enjoy playing with cars, so I do work on my old cars. I also happen to own a POS jeep that does not interest me, so I pay someone else to work on it when it needs attention. Basically, if it’s not fun, I don’t do it. I know plenty of folks who enjoy working in their yard; personally, I’ll let someone else do it. I don’t mind doing plumbing, painting, etc. and I will do that stuff myself if I happen to have time. If I have real work to do, someone else can do it. In most cases my time is more valuable than what I would pay someone else to do the job. I’m certainly not going to spend 5 hours under a car to save $500 unless I’m playing with one of my toys. I don’t even bother changing the oil in the POS jeep myself.
I’d be thrilled if the primary and secondary educational system just began turning out students with competancies in reading comprehension, writing, math, and critical thinking skills. They do not. The availability is there for that small population of self-motivated students, however the bulk of the students are allowed to graduate with minimal if any skills. The function of the primary and secondary systems is to product young adults with the basic skills and knowledge to be able to either become functional adults or pursue specialized education in a field of their choosing. IMHO the primary and secondary systems are seriously derelict in their responsibilities.
While I agree with the premise of your statement, the tragedy is that the schools have a very long way to go toward the basics first.
As far as reading the manual, when we bought our new Sienna in late 2001, I took the manual and read it completely through. Several years later, the tire light came on when the tires were changed. Though I had read the manual which tells you how to reset it, I completely forgot reading it and posted on here asking for help on how to reset the tire light. I was told to look in the manual which I read in 2001. I felt like an idiot.
The public school education system, or lack thereof in many cases, is one of my greatest peeves. There seems to be real difficulty in teaching someone how to count change back out of a buck.
This example is the final straw with my kids, who are out of the public schooling pit.
My daughter came home one evening very upset and would not even talk about it. Later that evening, about 10 or so, my wife finally got it out of her.
One of her “homework assignments” was to quote: “Listen in to what your parents talk about during dinner and make a report on it”. This was also followed with “it would be a good idea to make “secret” notes” so as to not “possibly upset them”.
Needless to say, I was at the principal’s office early the next morning and flat told him my daughter was NOT doing that assignment as our personal affairs are none of the school’s business. She was NOT going to get a bad grade over failure to do it either or someone was going to get some physical violence inflicted on them. (polite terms here)
The principal was flustered and blubbering about talking to the teacher about this problem to which I replied, “It should be no problem, you’re married to the witch who gave her the homework”.
(The assignment was “dropped” but the final straw had already been piled on.)
So, 3 weeks into her junior year we yanked her out of school, she finished a GED (which is not as easy as some may think), she scored very high (30s) on the ACTs and combined with her great academic record, she was accepted into a major Div. 1 university at just over 17 years of age; and offered great scholarships by the university to boot. She also maintained a 3.8 GPA at college.
Things like this are not unusual and are the root cause of what is wrong with public education today. Too much focus on pure garbage. Through venting now.
This whole thing has gone wildly off topic, but that reminds me of a scenario I faced at a local Lowes store. I had gone in to buy some painting supplies, a couple of brushes and I believe some drop cloths. The store had just opened and there was a girl a little bit older than I (I was 20 at the time). The computers were not working correctly yet and the register did not display the change that was owed me when I paid with a 50. The girl very slowly counted back my change and ended with… “and 50 is your change?” She stood there, I stood there, and it finally dawned on me that she had actually asked a question. I slowly nodded in approval (because she actually did count it back correctly) and made my way back to the truck, kinda bewildered.
While it is very popular to blame schools nowadays and to claim that education used to be much better, I will remind everyone that we have always had some students who are not very bright or are not very motivated. Case in point:
Back in the early 70s, my brother managed a five & dime store which was staffed exclusively by women in their 40s, 50s and 60s. One week, the chain announced a “10% off sale” in the fabric department. Now, bear in mind that this was before modern computerized cash registers and before most people had a pocket-sized calculator.
He noticed that the woman who headed the fabric department had a “deer in the headlights” look when he mentioned the 10% off sale, so he privately inquired whether she knew how to calculate the sale price. She stated that she had never learned about percentages in school, so he took her to his office and spent about 30 minutes showing her how to move the decimal point in order to easily calculate the discount, followed by some simple subtraction. He did many examples ("If the fabric is $2.00 per yard, we move the decimal point one place to the left, and we see that the fabric is reduced by .20 per yard. Now we subtract .20 from $2.00, and we see that the customer pays $1.80 per yard. This fabric is $5.00…and so on.)
After showing her repeatedly how to do this, and after having her do a few of these simple calculations on her own, he asked her, “Well, Betty, do you feel confident enough to do this on your own with customers?”. Her reply was, “Well, I guess so, but what if they buy more than one yard of fabric?”
The moral of this little tale is that this woman, who apparently attended the local parochial girls’ high school in the early '50s, claimed that she had never been taught this fairly basic bit of everyday adult knowledge. The more likely explanation is that either Betty was not very bright or that she did not pay very much attention in school. That situation has always existed and it will always exist, no matter what a teacher does and no matter what the curriculum may be.
That is amazing!! Incredible…some teachers these days just have nothing going on in their heads whatsoever…I base this following opinion on anecdotes and personal experience, no offense to the good teachers out there: it seems too many teachers have become teachers because they simply could not cut it in any other job, or didn’t know what they wanted to do. Or, they simply never got over being in high school, miss it terribly, and see being a teacher as an opportunity to go back, being paid on top of that. It seems to me that instead of the putting the dumb and misguided in those jobs to teach our kids, we should be putting gifted people who know how to TEACH…who (and this is important) also know what common sense is, something else teachers these days seem to find so hard to grasp.
Ok, I’m done for now.
I have to agree with VDC in this. I will concur that there are some EXTREMELY STUPID people graduating our school systems…but it’s nothing new. I have a cousin who’s 63 who can’t read and write and has a high-school diploma.
My daughter when graduating highschool was far ahead of me when I graduated in 71. Her indepth knowledge of Math was astonishing. Scored 5.0 on the AP calc exam…and scored 800 in the math portion of her SAT’s. Now in her Junior year at MIT and made the Deans list every year.
Yet there were kids like this guy Jake who graduated the same year as my daughter from the same school…and is now working at a KFC. I went there for lunch one day and for the $9.20 bill I handed him $10. The register told him to give me $.80 change…but didn’t know how to to count out $.80. Luckily he was just being trained and the supervisor was there to take over. He still works there…in the back someplace making the chicken.
My two-one-hundreths of a dollar: When I was in H.S., I wanted to take a basic class in auto repair, but was steered away from it because I was “college prep” material. Now I have an advanced degree and a good job, and I probably couldn’t change my car’s tire or unplug a drain in my house if my life depended on it. We’ve created two classes of people in this country: people with advanced degrees like doctors, attorneys, and accountants; and people who have practical skills, like plumbers, auto technicians, and electricians. Both classes make an economic killing off the other. I don’t know if there’s any solution; a lot of it is a consequence of living in a complex society.
“…consequences of living in a complex society.”
I do think that’s the issue, 500 years ago a well educated person could have a fairly complete understanding of broad subject matter (think Da Vinci). About 100 years ago the average person had enough practical knowledge to understand/repair most everyday devices, although most did not understand the “cutting edge” of knowledge. In the last 50 years, it is a challenge to remain current in ones own very narrow field of expertise, and the fields keep getting narrower. We now routinely use devices that we do not fully understand. How many people have a clear understanding of how their computer, or their cell phone, or even their TV really works? Vehicles have reached a point where anything other than routine maintenance requires specialized knowledge and equipment, the days of the “general repair shop” are probably numbered.
I don’t have a problem with the “two class” society you’ve described, these service jobs have replaced the old economy manufacturing jobs that were available 50 years ago. Essentially, we have half the society providing “high value added” services and paying others to take care of all the day to day stuff. This works when time becomes more scarce than money to a large portion of the society. I doubt any of us want to go back to the old manufacturing based economy, but it’s long gone anyway.
Regarding high school, it no longer qualifies graduates to do anything. It is simply basic knowledge that is required to take the next step. It may be unfortunate that they don’t teach more “life skills,” but that is really not their job. Most of those “skills” are likely to be obsolete in 10-20 years anyway (certainly auto repair). My 6th grade daughter is taking a class in basic chinese, which will probably be much more useful than plumbing during her lifetime.
If one has a desire to learn the basics of “practical skills,” there are plenty of other resources. Community collages are always offering classes on things like auto repair and body work, your local Home Depot will frequently have “classes” on all kinds of DIY projects, the library and internet have a huge amount of practical info on just about anything you want to try.
As a guy who graduated high school in the early 90’s, I wish we still had auto shop back then. I was forced into taking Home Economics, which to me is total BS. If I had to take that, why can’t some of these pansy’s take auto shop. One of the reasons our shop was closed, outside of financial reasons, parents were complaining that their little Johnny or Susie had to take auto shop when they didn’t want to. I say bring it back, it does give insight to the automobile on how to fix the little thing (ie lost gas cap, changing and replacing oil, changing a tire, and even how to check the dipstick). I had a friend in highschool who got a brand new car for his birthday and within a month cracked his $150 rim for his tire because he didn’t know how to change a tire and wouldn’t take shop. Make it Manditory, they do with Home Economics (I still can’t sew to this day, let alone thread a needle - what a wasted year that was).
The TV show “Frasier” recently had a great rerun relative to this subject. Frasier and Niles tried to learn something about cars by attending an adult automotive basics course. Their ineptness and inability in this area was hysterical.
The realiy is that many people simply do not have the inherant abilities. Just as some people simply cannot grasp finances, some cannot grasp the concept of variables in algebra, some simply cannot grasp the relationships of angles and sides in trig, and some…like me…simply cannot grasp finances or the rules of English. Trig, no sweat. Calc, no sweat. Balancing the books…forgeddaboutit! Dangling participles, forgeddaboutit!
Mechanically inclined folks simply assume that anybody can learn it. They can’t. Th goal is worthy, but perhaps not realistic.
To be fair to people who do not know some particular body of knowledge, I have to say of my own knowledge, " What I do know would fill a slim volume. What I don’t know would fill whole libraries." Put another way, there is so much to learn, and so many things to attend to during the day, that one can barely make a dent in the growing mass of knowledge. The questions which I see coming to this forum, are from more knowledgeable, more inquisitive, more capable people. My replies are geared to them, and/or their mechanics. One, or the other, may be able to understand the technical details.
The TV show “Frasier” recently had a great rerun relative to this subject. Frasier and Niles tried to learn something about cars by attending an adult automotive basics course. Their ineptness and inability in this area was hysterical.
I saw that show…hysterical…
The realiy is that many people simply do not have the inherant abilities. Just as some people simply cannot grasp finances, some cannot grasp the concept of variables in algebra, some simply cannot grasp the relationships of angles and sides in trig, and some…like me…simply cannot grasp finances or the rules of English. Trig, no sweat. Calc, no sweat. Balancing the books…forgeddaboutit! Dangling participles, forgeddaboutit!
I agree there are people who just don’t GET IT…But there are a lot of people who have the ability…but because they have no interest they have a very hard time grasping it.
I had a nephew who was doing poorly in math at 7th grade…I was called in to help…The teachers he had for the 7 years were IDIOTS…We spent one whole summer 3 times a week for 2 hours a day…At the end of the summer…he LOVED math…Senior took AP Calc…Majored in Electrical Engineering in college…Presentation has a LOT to do with interest.
I’ve watched this thread with interest. I have a unique view of this.
I am teaching auto mechanics to high school juniors and seniors. We have a program here called the Career Tech Center (CTC), it offers high school juniors and seniors a glimse of programs in nursing, welding, accounting and a number of other fields. We have students from 8 counties around us that come to our campus. What I have found here has just amazed me, we have students that can’t perform basic math problems and have very poor reading skills.
As far as your point in having students learn about basic car care, it is a waste of time, they need to learn math and reading skills first.
I’d like to expand on our CTC auto mechanics program. You would not believe the students we get in this program. We get most of the rejects from the local schools, the students they just want out of their schools even if it is for just 2 hours in the morning and afternoon. I have 49 students between 2 classes and of all of these students just 3 show any kind of appitude or willingness to learn. Most just sit in class hoping to do just enough to get credit for the class.
I have handed out math assignments of simple multiplication and long division and about 1/4 of them tell me they don’t know how to do the assignment. These students want to become automotive technicans and work on your cars. Frankly, I have 3 students that I would trust with my car and the rest I would never let near my car.
I think if you own a car you need to read your owners manual, it’s that simple. That’s the place to start.
I agree Caddyman,
I took this car apart before I realized I don’t have thumbs only dew claws. Now I can’t get this damn Lola together
-Kingston the Wonderdog
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You’ve made some pretty interesting comments. It’s great to hear something like this from one who is actually teaching it.
What’s sad is the number who can’t do basic math equations. Being a mechanic, as compared to a grease monkey, is math heavy.
It sure makes you wonder how those guys would do with a micrometer in their hand or reading technical specs out of a manual.
The owners manual is exactly the right place to learn the basics and there’s a thousand other resources if someone really wants to become more mechanically literate.
I had a pretty decent knowledge of electricity many years ago but figured I would like to know more than I did. So I enrolled in an electronics school on my own dime and took almost a year of night classes just to get a better grasp of things.
Anyone out there could do the same thing; if they wanted to.
These students want to become automotive technicans and work on your cars. Frankly, I have 3 students that I would trust with my car and the rest I would never let near my car.
Don’t worry, they have a bright future ahead of them at Jiffy Lube. 
That’s true. This is the biggest reason quick lube places get a bad rap.
The funny thing is when I ask these students what their goals are, they want to be auto techs that make $50,000 to $90,000. They hear about techs that make that kind of money but they don’t realize how much hard work and experience it takes to get to that level. When I try to explain to them that I have been a tech that made that kind of money but it took many years of training and hard work to get there, they look at me like I’m some kind of idiot. They believe they can just walk into any shop and make that kind of money.
They also believe that after they get out of high school or even a vocational school they won’t have to continue training or have to keep up their math and reading skills.
I will say that the students we get are not the cream of the crop. The top students are going into highly skilled fields, they won’t even consider auto mechanics. I don’t blame them, it’s not a very glamorus field.
As cars get more and more complicated there will be fewer well qualified techs out there to repair these cars. So I don’t see the automotive repair industry improving it’s reputation for a long time.
Their parents are partially to blame. The kids want, their parents give, no earning anything. I’ve seen it all to often even at my job, these 18~21 year old people don’t even try to learn the job, they just learn the motions and expect others to pick up after them.