Not so. Driver’s Ed is available in many high schools, and some states are trying to make it mandatory before students can get their licenses.
I agree, let me point out to another interesting area. In our company which is an automotive component manufacturing facility, I see new recruits walk in with no mechanical aptitude whatsoever, it is sad. In my days (1990) skills like reading a micrometer, knowing your way through a tool box and basic assembly skills were taken for granted. Seems like people dont like getting dirty any more.
I guess the same applies to basic automotive knowledge. In that case though Automotive companies are just as cupable. They create an environment of absolute ignorance, so the dealers get all the minor service business.
After all, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to read an Owner’s Manual, but as we see all too often, those booklets are probably still sitting in the original cellophane wrapper in most glove compartments–only to totally disappear when the car is sold or traded in.
I’ve test drove a few cars from various dealerships and some have the salesman drive the car off the lot and go some distance down the road before they stop and let you take over. I usually take this time to atleast check the break-in procedure for the car, since it takes a minute ore two to just find the index in these novels that come with new cars. I have a feeling that I am gonna be the only one to ever even LOOK at the darned thing. If/when I get my new car, I’ll probably negotiate the factory repair manual in with the new car, and maybe a handheld OBD2 scanner. I may not be able to fix the problem, but hopefully I’ll atleast know what’s wrong with it.
I agree that there are many things young people should learn before they graduate from high school. However, it would take so many class hours to teach all of it that no one could graduate before the age of thirty.
What good is it to teach someone about personal finance when he/or she cannot do simple arithmetic? Schools need to concentrate on the traditional fundamentals – reading and writing, basic mathematics and science, history and geography. With a solid background, any motivated person can learn the rest on his/her own.
“By contrast, a car is something that we depend upon every day, can be extremely dangerous if not kept in proper condition, and is–for most people–the second largest $$ purchase that they will ever make. And yet, so many people are so totally uninvolved that they ignore maintenance, drive on bald tires, never read the Owner’s Manual, don’t know what model year their car is, and can’t even spell the name of the make and model.”
Personally, I agree with you. I’m probably as much of an auto maintenance geek as anyone here (my daily driver just turned over 412K miles; and I spent a half hour this morning replacing a $200 electric auxiliary water pump that had started making slightly more noise, if you listen very carefully, and doesn’t really do anything except help the cabin heat at idle).
My point was that many/most folks just don’t care about the details. My 75 year old mother simply takes her buick to the dealer for service and replaces whatever they tell her is needed. If it breaks down, she calls AAA. After 100K miles she trades it in on an identical new buick regardless of condition. Her car is always in very good condition, and she probably doesn’t know how to open the hood. I’m sure she spends more than she needs to, but that is her “comfort zone.” I don’t bug her about that, and she doesn’t point out that I pay people to sew loose buttons on my shirts and don’t cook anything that doesn’t involve a microwave oven.
I’m not advocating teaching everyone how to repair motor vehicles. But a half-semester course could impart a lot of knowledge. Like being able to identify the major components found under the hood. How to check the fluids. How brakes work and what the brake parts look like. How to change a flat tire safely. How to locate the fuse box and change a blown fuse. Put a car up on a lift and point out all the “under-the-car” stuff and briefly describe its function. Spend a class day going over a cut-a-way engine or lacking that, just a video of a display engine so students get an idea how important engine oil is and what can happen if it’s neglected…Just this basic knowledge, 2 weeks of class time would be more than enough, tie it in with drivers education, is this asking too much?
When I see people standing by the side of the road with a flat tire and they don’t even know where the spare is, let alone how to change it, that points to some serious educational shortcomings and this ignorance costs consumers billions of dollars a year. The aftermath of all this shows up as hundreds of posts everyday on this board…
My youngest brother is a consultant in social services, and had problems with highschool math. However, he is puzzled by owners manuals and after buying his first new car he asked me to summarize all important maintenance on an 8 1/2x11 sheet (2sides) which he covered in plastic. I took the manual, added some important items, and he still drives his 1987 Honda Accord, which is mechanically near perfect, but showing some rust at 250,000 miles.
The owners manual is still known as the world’s most un-read best-seller!
Well, on the evening news tonight it appears there is a group pushing for a “rock and roll” course in the public schools also. They believe this should be taught starting in junior high if I remember the story correctly.
According to these people the students test scores will improve by 10-15% if this is taught.
What better way to comprehend automotive basics than cranking Metallica up full blast.
It still boils down to the fact that the majority of people have no desire, at all, to spend even 30 minutes on a spare weekend with the hood up looking things over. It’s strictly drive, drive, drive until a problem occurs, and then worry and complain.
Every place around here has drivers ed and what happens? They drive spot on during their training period and when trying to get a license.
The minute they’re turned loose with a license what happens? Out of the way.
There is no reason to think a high school taught course would be any different.
A few years back an Air Force instructor pilot at the base here (a Captain) bought a used Porsche and brought it in for a general lookover, filters, tune, etc.
Within the next 2 weeks this guy ran this car out of gas on the way to the base not once, but THREE times. After the first time he was told it was not going to run on air alone. Did he get the hint? No. It happened twice more in the next week and who did he curse? Us.
And yes, he had a working gas gauge, a working low fuel light, and each time the lines and the tank were empty.
So. Here you have a college degreed Captain tooling around in jet fighters and runs his car out of gas three times even after being told each time what the problem was. We went out, found the gauge on E, put a few gallons in, and he was fine until the next time he went to E.
You can’t fix carelessness, apathy, or in this case - utter stupidity.
Well? This is not only revealed from those people who post questions, but it’s also revealed by those people that respond! Some of the reponses to questions on this board are from people who are still living in the 80’s!
Today’s vehicles are more complex than ever. And because of this, some of the suggestions put forth on this board no longer apply as they did in the past. This has become especially true with the advent computers and electronic control. So because of this, all the systems in a vehicle must be maintained on a regular basis. This includes the transmission, engine, power steering hydraulics, brake hydraulics, and the cooling system. These systems aren’t as robust as those in the past. So they must be maintained.
So, either you keep up with the technology, or you get left behind. And by the way? A drain and fill of an automatic transmission these days is considered old technology.
Tester
It comes down to a persons priorities. Many people don’t WANT to know a thing about cars. I have a brother that is very clueless. And he knows it…and just never wanted to know the first thing about cars. And we both have technical degrees. And he’s HAS been taken advantage of…and will for years to come. It was great for him when we lived near each other…but now he’s in Connecticut and I’m in NH.
As for high-school…It should be an option…but NOT required. My son’s workload is heavy enough…AP Calc…AP Physics…AP Chemistry…and a plethora of English/History and other courses in the humanities. He’s helped me a few times. He know how to change the oil and brakes and tuneup. I’ve also seen MANY people who HAVE taken the basic automotive classes…and I wouldn’t let them add washer fluid to ANY of my vehicles.
Drivers ed?? Long gone in most schools.
I’ve yet to see the school that DOESN’T offer drivers ed. It’s just NOT funded by the school. It’s a option class that is PAID by the student or parent. I went to a private high school that offered it though a private drivers ed school.
Mike:
In my area of Washington State the drivers ed program was dropped 3 years ago. It turns out that the amount they would need to charge the parents cost more then going through a private drivers training course. It was an optional class when I went to school but when my daughter turned 15 1/2 we had to enroll her in a private driver training class. Funny thing is the one we used is owned and operated by the same guy who was my drivers ed teacher 23 years ago.
~Michael
I’m afraid that too many students go through our public schools and have any curiousity killed off. These students become very skilled at taking standardized tests, but have no skills in applying the knowledge that they supposedly learned. We aren’t helping students develop logic and reasoning skills. Let me give you an illustration:
Back in 1980, I attended a big national convention. In one of the sessions, papers were presented indicating that the use of computers in the classroom had shifted from writing programs to running canned programs. Now I’ll be the first to admit that word processing programs, spread sheets and data bases are very useful. However, creating a program does more, in my opinion, to help students develop logic skills than running a canned program. I made the comment that I wasn’t certain that moving away from writing programs in favor of running canned programs was necessarily a good thing. The chair of the session took exception to what I said. In fact, she said, “You are wrong. Let me give you an example. I live in a mountainous state and drive 25,000 miles a year to supervise student teachers. I am a good driver and have never had an accident. Yet, I don’t know what goes on under the hood of my car and I don’t care to know”. At this point, I stood up and said “I hope the rest of your state doesn’t have your driving sense of curiousity”.
I think we have brought up a generation that wants an immediate answer to a problem, but lack the drive to seek the solution to the problem. I’ve told my students that when a teacher tells them that “they don’t need to know something” to pick up their books and run like hell in the other direction. We should be helping students develop curiousity to want to know about things rather than just to “need to know about something”. A class in auto mechanics probably won’t do much good if it becomes another class to “get out of the way”. On the other hand, if a person really wants to know how his or her automobile functions and to do some maintenance, there are all kinds of resources available to the person.
I’ve been in college teaching for over 40 years. I’ve seen a real decline in intellectual curiousity over this time period.
“if a person really wants to know how his or her automobile functions and to do some maintenance, there are all kinds of resources available to the person”.
As I was writing I realized this is basically what I was going to say.
My hat’s off to Triedag for a great post that is exactly right on the money.
Maybe the problem is that television has generated too many mind numbed robots who are towed passively along by Oprah, Seinfeld, etc. rather than watching an educational program or supreme horror of all horrors; visiting the public library to check out a few books.
As to the chair of the meeting you attended, I can just picture her, and millions of her clones, standing at the dealer or independent shop service counter screaming bloody murder even when presented an estimate only for something caused by abuse. “ME! Neglect my car! NO WAY”.
“I’ve been in college teaching for over 40 years. I’ve seen a real decline in intellectual curiousity over this time period.”
Kids today… (-;
Decline? That’s an understatement!
I’ll give you two prime examples from personal experience:
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Two teenaged girls in a department store. First girl, “Wow, this is 90% off!”. Second girl, “How much is that?”. First girl, “I don’t know but 50% is half and this is way more than that!”
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We had a hard time filling a low level mechanical engineering position and some had taken to asking even the most obvious questions of candidates. Here’s a gem: Interviewer- “How many thousandths in an inch?” Candidate- “I don’t know…there must be a million of them”.
To add to your stories, my wife and I were in a discount store and we just happened to go through the housewares department. I noticed that there was one mop head left that would fit our mop. Most of the time when the mop head wears out, the company changes styles and I have to buy the entire mop. At any rate, I grabbed the mop head then realized that the package had been opened and the bolts and nuts to hold it to the mop were missing. I decided it would still work–I would use the fasteners that held the existing mop head to the handle. However, I decided that I should have a discount. We took it to the service desk and explained the situation. The service attendant asked if I thought a 10% discount would be o.k. I agreed. The mop head was $1.98. Well, the attendant couldn’t figure out how much to deduct, so she called her supervisor. Her supervisor pushed buttons on the calculator and couldn’t come up with an answer. She called the manager. He swaggered out and said, “Let me show you gals how to calculate a 10% discount”. He punched buttons on the calculator and then said, “We’ll take a 10% discount off $1.98 and we should charge him $1.00”. Then he looked at me and said, “Isn’t that right?” Of course I agreed. When people are so dependent on a calculator that they can’t even understand that 10% of a dollar is ten cents. and for $1.98, this would be 20 cents off, we have problems. Of course, it took the time of three people to calculate my “10% discount”.
To paraphrase Everett Dirksen, a half-semester here and a half-semester there and, pretty soon, you’re talking about entire years.
As far as people who do not know how to change a tire are concerned, this is more a question of common sense than education. Nobody taught me to change a flat; I must have picked it up by osmosis. As long as she has a cheater bar to loosen the lug nuts, my retired musician / purchasing clerk wife can change a flat.
Farther along in this thread, there is a post about three employees in a hardware store, one of whom was the manager, who couldn’t correctly calculate a 10% discount off of $1.98, even with the aid of a calculator. This is something any elementary school graduate should be able to do in his/her head.
I like that you want to help educate drivers, but I must disagree that we should offer this in schools. Driver’s education already includes the basics. Most people forget about or ignore that part of drivers education and I don’t think that will change. For those who spend $20,000-$50,000 on a car and choose not to educate themselves, their ignorance has a premium and I can live with that. Look at the average PhD, for example. Most of them are brilliant, but they don’t want to take the time to learn basic information that could save them thousands of dollars. I am talking about basic plumbing and home repairs. I am talking about automotive maintenance. They are either enthusiasts who get their hands dirty or they enjoy their ignorance of basic mundane information, in which case their ignorance often has a premuim. I am okay with that.
I have shown my girlfriend how to check the oil three times and she forgets how to do it.