Consumer Reports only reports problems not longevity.
Like people, some cars have good genes and some not so good. Andrew, following your shallow logic, one could even make a YUGO last a long time!!! You know that just is not so.
I take a lot of taxis all over the world; in North America the big rear drive sedans were the favorite because they were sturdy and cheap to maintain and repair. Many reach 1 million miles before they are retired.
Overseas I have ridden in some remarkable vehicles:
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A Toyota Corolla diesel with 1.4 million kilometers (875,000 miles) on it and still on the original engine. The upholstery was a little shabby.
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A 70s Volvo 240 with 650,000 miles on it in like new condition
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A mid 80s Merceds 300 Turbodiesel with 700,000 miles on it and used in daily limousine service.
The above 3 vehicles had some things in common; they were WELL ENGINEERED, WELL BUILT, and RELATIVELY SIMPLE IN DESIGN. which made them easy to maintain and repair.
It so happens that Toyota, Honda, Mazda, and now Hyundai design cars for longer life, and many of these vehicles now travel over 200,000 miles before anything has to be replaced, other than wear items. My mother-in-law’s 1994 Chevy Cavalier has only 40,000 miles on it and many items such as alternator, starter, A/C compressor have already bit the dust.
Th point some of us are trying to make is that some car companies take a different design philosophy and quality control approach than others.
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how bout by maintenece.
yep thats the one.
unless made by the horrid three,with stadium seating,now thats funny,but true.(FORD).
REMEMBER RON WHITE? doubt it.
but anyway,it will take you to the seen of the crash.
Still amazes me that so many people put so much trust into Consumer Reports.
CR is also the group that says some maintenance issues should be ignored and age is not a critical factor with timing belts. Any of you agree with that?
I don’t remember them saying either. I do remember them testing 6000 vs 3000 mile oil changes, and finding no impact on engine wear.
I’m on my second Suzuki motorcycle. Both have been as good or better than any bike that I have owned regarding reliability. If this translates to their cars, then they have very good cars indeed.
This is a cut and paste from the CR website in which they apparently went to bat for a lady and her Nissan and do not think an aged belt needs to be replaced.
The manual says 105k miles, the car had 60k miles but the belt was apparently about 7 years old.
Blindly following a dealer’s recommendations can be a big mistake. That’s what Linda Minucci of West Islip, N.Y., discovered when a Nissan dealer advised her to change the timing belt as part of the 60,000-mile service on her 2000 Pathfinder. Minucci balked at spending the $429 after noticing that the owner’s manual recommended replacing the belt at 105,000 miles.
?Am I supposed to listen to them or am I supposed to listen to my service manual?? she asked, noting that many people probably don’t think to check the manual. The dealer told Minucci that her manual is incorrect. Nissan told us the manual is accurate
Another cut and paste from CR about scheduled maintenance.
Specify needed services. Use your owner’s manual to determine which services need to be performed at specific mileage intervals. Then tell the shop those services you want performed. Don’t be swayed by the extras that a shop might want to throw in, padding the bill. Avoid using terms such as ?tune-up.? You’ll only invite a quote for an expensive package.
Someone at Nissan was wrong with agreeing with CR on the first one and CR is wrong in which they state that a car owner should always adhere to the owners manual. There are a number of things that should be performed more often than the manual recommends.
No doubt this car owner will be screaming bloody murder when/if the timing belt breaks at 90k miles or the transmission drops prematurely because the fluid was never changed.
It’s NOT the fact that they kept it that long or that many miles…but how much they put into it to get it there. My wifes 96 Accord had about 230k miles on it when she bought her new Lexus. I put a total of $4 keeping that car running beyond normal maintenance(oil changes, tuneups, brakes…battery…etc). I could have kept my S-15 going that long…but it probably would have cost me $3-5k NOT $4. I was well beyond $1k at 120k miles.
My brother-in-law…when he retired as Plant manager from Chryco at 51 started a construction company with his youngest son. Company grew to about 10 employees. He buys old homes and fixes them up and occasionally will build new homes (usually 2-3 a year). When he started his company he used Dodge Ram pickups…Then switched to GM and then Ford…Each model caused him grief. Every month one of his trucks was down for repair. Nothing major…but when you’re relying on your truck for your job and you loose it for a day or two it costs you money. The last 4 years he’s been buying Toyota’s…Says he’s never going back. As of July 4th of this year NONE of his Toyota’s saw even 1 day of down time.
Our Lexus LS400 has 225,000 miles on it and here are some thoughts that have gone unmentioned.
Our car still has original shocks, mufflers, tailpipes, and all the rest that normally are replaced several times on most cars on the way to 225K. So, that’s longevity.
Our engine and transmission seem to be like new - smooth and powerful. Now, due to the nicer gearing (this is an overdrive type transmission) when on the highway at 70 MPH the revs are at about 2000 RPM. Compare that to something smaller where the reves at that speed might be 3700 RPM. I would think, in my decidely non-mechanical way, that the engine turning at 3700 RPM is suffering more wear per minute than the engine turning at 2000 RPM. Just a practical guess.
I would also guess that most premium cars have better framework systems and would tend to stay straighter and more rigid over the miles, and so would be more viable for longer life than the lesser built cars.
= longevity
You fail to mention if your Lexus LS 400 has required $500 timing belt and water pump changes every 60,000 miles and another coming up soon at 240K miles. At 225K miles, this would be $1500 to date. Your location will dictate your exhaust system life. In a northern location, 225k mile exhaust system life may not happen.
Exhaust life is radically different on certain makes of car. I live up in the salt and snow belt (Boston) and I see people go through exhausts real fast on certain cars. However, I also see certain makes seemingly never go through exhausts because they’re so overbuilt. One such example is BMW exhausts-they’re insane. I see the body of the car and the coil springs in the suspension rusting through before the exhausts do. If you need to build a fortress or bomb shelter make it out of BMW mufflers haha.
I think we have a situation here where the car manufacturerr knows that low maintenance requirements sells cars, and Consumer Reports does not have enough qualified technical staff to determine what a car really needs for long, reliable life!
Originally, Japanese cars had very extensive maintenance requirements. These got eased over time, not necesarily for the good, when quality went up and they became more familiar with the US car market.
Motor Week, the US public TV car program had Pat Goss advise viewers how to get maximum life out of their cars. He specified transmission fluid and filter change every 50,000 miles, radiator flush and coolant change every 50,000 miles, and timing belt replacement, where appicable, every 60,000 miles. He also recommended much more frequent oil changes that specified. This, regardless what the owner’s manual or the dealer would suggest. Most responsible independent mechanics would agree with this.
For the confused non-technical car owner, first follow the manual religiously. As the car gets to 40,000 miles do the cooling system and transmission service, and the timing belt at 60,000. For oil changes, follow the SEVERE SERVICE shcedule in the manual. This should get most cars to 250,000 miles without major items failing.
Also people do not realize their suspension/shcoks is worn out. Especially non handling cars.
Given the number of Japanese made Toyotas we have owned, I would have voted them at the top for longevity. Now that they are made in the USA, I don’t think their quality is that much better than any of the big three. My 2000 truck got caught up in the truck sales promotion and was tagged as a problem when none existed. Being blacklisted, our only recourse seemed at the time to buy a new truck. The new truck may run as long as some of the older ones but it is a mess, poor paint quality, the doors sound as if they will come off when you close them, poor mpg, and Toyota settled their frame corrosion problem by excluding salt caused corrosion from the warranty. If we taken more time to think about it, we would have purchased a less expensive non Toyota vehicle. I am hoping we can buy a second Prius before they are made in the USA too.
There are a number of posts dealing with reliable US cars that go many hundreds of thousands of miles before being scrapped. However, these vehicles consumed a lot of parts and components.
Looking through my past repair history for some vehicles I have owned confirms this:
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1965 Dodge Dart, 154,000 miles. Replaced 2 sets of ball joints, 2 sets of shock absorbers, 3 exhaust sytems, 2 alternators, 1 starter, 1 fan motor, 1 water pump, 1 head gasket, 1 gas tank, iginition switch, rebuilt front end, rear axle seals, replaced distributor shaft, replaced master cylinder, replaced turn signal, voltage regulator, speedometer cable, brake drums, universal joints on drive shaft, 1 paint job. Total 25 repairs, or 16.2 repairs/100,000 miles.
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1984 Chevrolet Impala V8, 186,000 miles; replaced 2 sets of shock absorbers, ball joints, front springs, 2 exhaust systems, alternator, starter, fan motor, heater core, radiator, gas tank, rebuilt front end, speedometer cable, fuel pump, front disks, 1 paint job. Total 16 repairs or 8.6 repairs /100,000 miles.
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1976 Ford Granada 351 V8, 108,000 miles. Replaced shock absorbers, ball joints, exhaust sytems, starter, fan motor, heater core, A/C compressor, rear springs, rebuilt front end, turn signal, emission controls on engine. Total 11 repairs or 10.2 repairs/100,000 miles.
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1988 Chevrolet Caprice V8, 133,000 miles. Replaced shock absorbers, front disks, 2 exhaust systems, 2 alternators, starter, fan motor, 2 water p[umps, rebuilt front end, rear end bearings, rear axle seals, intake manifgold gasket, flyywheel, paint job. Total 16 repairs or 12.0 repairs/100,000 mi;es.
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1994 Nissan Sentra, 125,000 miles. Replaced 2 exhaust systems, starter, CV joints, radator, front end parts, dash lights,rear crankshaft seal. Total 8 repairs or 6.4 repairs/100,000 miles.
All 5 cars had brakes done at about 40,000 miles, and batteries replaced about every 5 years.
As you can see, an average Japanese car needs far fewer repairs and replacements that average US cars.
It’s those lazy American workers that keep screwing up everything. Maybe when we get a good president and move to socialized medicine and government control over industry the workers will do a better job. Let’s hope so.
While some dealers may sell services that are not needed, sometimes the recommendation by the dealer, even though suggested sooner than required by the owner’s manual may be right on target. Case in point: I bought a 2000 Ford Windstar from a trusted country dealer. When I took the Windstar for the 30,000 mile service, the dealer changed the transmission fluid. This service was not required for “normal” service. However, I also found out that the transmission in the Windstar was not known for its durability, and that independent transmission shops also recommend the 30,000 mile transmission service for this vehicle. I had an independent transmission shop change the fluid again at 60,000. They reported that everything was in good shape. My son now has the Windstar and has about 110,000 miles and has had no transmission problems. Before he bought my Windstar, my son had a 1999 Ford Windstar. He had to have a transmission rebuild at 110,000 miles or thereabouts.
Toyota had some quality issues during a recent period where they experienced heavy growth in sales and production. Having had a chance to re-focus on quality, I hope Toyota has resolved the quality issues.