Yes, the auto industry is a global one and I wouldn’t be worried about putting an AC Delco filter on some other brand of car. I once did this with a Motorcraft filter on a GM car. It was a choice between Motorcraft and the cheapest grades of Fram. Since they were the same price I figured the Motorcraft was the way to go. It matched up via the numbers lookup for the car in question so would think it was built to the same spec.
I have also done the same with the AC Delco filters. My GF has a Suzuki Reno. This isn’t really a Suzuki but a rebadged Daewoo product from S. Korea. Daewoo was part of GM and many of the parts on this car say GM Daewoo. There is little mention of this being a Suzuki anywhere except the exterior badging on the car. So, do you consider this car a Suzuki, Daewoo, or GM? They are all obviously together on this line of cars. I usually just get the AC Delco as it is one of the cheaper ones but wouldn’t have an issue using a Motorcraft.
One of my friends with a Ford was having issues with lifter clatter on startup. It was suggested he use only Motorcraft filters by the Ford dealer because of issues with anti-drainback valves on some of the aftermarkets. He followed their advice and the problem went away instantly. I am sure there are plenty of other filters that would do the job but obviously the one he was using before the change wasn’t up for the task.
Yes, many people do use an oversized filter including myself. Sometimes options limit the style of oil filter to a smaller size. For example I have seen cars where the AC compressor and such get in the way of a larger oil filter. The models without AC can have a slightly larger filter installed. A perfect example is my 1994 Geo Metro. The factory spec oil filter allows for the engine to take 3.5 quarts total of oil. The oversize for the cars without AC allows for the engine to take 4.0 quarts on the dot. I dump in 4 quarts without looking or measuring and after I have run it a minute, the oil level sits right on the full mark. Yes, I am actually using a European spec oil in the lowly Geo Metro!
For years and years GM pickups and SUVs used different oil filters depending on whether it was 2WD or 4WD. The same Chevy 350 engine used a bigger oil filter in a 2WD truck than in a 4WD truck. The bigger filter simply got in the way of the front driveshaft.
Yep, I have been doing the bigger oil filter trick on my 2000 S10 2WD with the 4.3L for years. I have never changed the oil on a 4WD version but this is a very easy vehicle to change oil on. There are no clearance issues with the longer filter.
CSA, your son's 13 Outback needs a full synthetic 0w20 oil. He cannot use a semi-synthetic or a higher weight oil. A 5w30 can be used as makeup oil in an emergency
Does Subaru make this same recommendation world-wide?
I ask because it has been widely theorized that Xw-20 oils are all about CAFE, and (best case) wear is held roughly equal, while FE is increased. Adding substance to this claim is that vehicles sold in countries not affected by CAFE-like calculations tend to run -30 weight, or even -40 wt, oils…while the same vehicle specs a 5-20 in the USA.
I know my (stone age tech) Ford 300 inline-6 has “officially” been back-spec’d to 5w-20…though I cannot think of one good reason to use it.
You would have to ask Subaru. Engines that were shifted to 5w20 were probably just done in the US and 5w20 synthetic or semi synthetic was usually recommended, but 5w20 was available in conventional as well.
I have not seen a 0w20 that was not a full synthetic. It may be a group III or group IV, but in the US, both qualify as full synthetic oils. I have read somewhere that engines that specify 0w20 have a little less clearance between the sides of the bushings and the crankshaft journals in order to hold better oil pressure on the bushing. I can’t verify that.
Use of heavier oils for a long period of time will cause the bushings and journals to run hotter due to increased pressure and drag from the heavier oils and and will cause sludging, coking or a varnish to build up on the bushing and journal surfaces.
Subaru’s built for other markets may use the pre-2011 bearings.
IMO, if Subaru was really serious about fuel economy, I believe there are other ways that they could have increased the mileage that would have been more effective than 0w20 oil. I.e. lower the shift curve for the transmission. That is one of the reasons that the 15 Legacy gets about 3 more MPG than the 14 model.
Wow, over $11 for a qt of oil that is not even full synthetic. The irony is that the Honda dealer is using Pennzoil or whatever else they get their hands on.
The only place I’ve seen 0w-20 is on-line. Non of the parts stores carry it i stock. I suppose I could special order it. Personally I’d stick with the full.
IF you are curious about the engines using different bearings, find a factory service manual for the US vs. another country where the oil weights are higher. You will find part numbers and measurements for bearing clearances. If they are all the same, using a slightly higher weight probably wouldn’t hurt anything but a little fuel economy.
I still wouldn’t go over one weight higher on either number. I wouldn’t do this now with cooler weather coming on. You want that oil flowing on those cold starts.
It is amazing how they have continued to make better lubricants with thinner and thinner weights that still protect engine parts. There is a time when this would have been considered a flushing oil only for running at idle to cleanout an engine. Now it is specified for an entire oil change, sometimes an extended interval one.
Running a thinner oil in an older engine isn’t the end of the world but I would be likely to pick a synthetic. If the engine starts using oil, I would suggest returning to the thicker weight.
@cwatkin, I would look for different part numbers, but the bearing surface to journal surface is the same, its the edge of the bearing, that is the US bearing should be wider OR the journal narrower. It would be difficult to determine just looking at the bearings specifications without having the crankshaft journal specs too.
The idea is that with less edge clearance where the oil leaves the bearing area, a lighter weight oil flows out slower than it can be pumped in, keeping the oil under higher pressure. This is why the oil bypass valve would open at a lower delta P (difference in pressure) so that oil pressure would not be reduced as much should the filter get clogged up for some reason.
Thats the theory as I understand it though. No one in the industry (actual engineers involved in the engine design) seems to be in a hurry to explain the real differences, if any. That leaves the door open to a lot of speculation.
Wouldn’t getting ahold of a foreign spec factory manual and a US spec manual answer these questions? Shouldn’t their be specs for the bearings, journals, and much more? Just compare the specs and then you know.
I do know that certain thicker oils are fine to run in certain engines but are not in the US because of CAFE standards. Of course no automaker is going to tell you how to make your car get WORSE mileage by saying it is OK to run a thicker oil.
Do the spec manuals even reference the width of the bearing or the machined width of the journals. They do specify the clearance between the face of the bearing and the face of the journal, which you use plastigage to measure. The widths are for manufacturing, not repair. You would have to get the factory drawings that are used for manufacturing and those are usually not available to the public.
Again, I do not know if any of this is true or if it is just someones speculation. The manufacturers are not helping here.
Why would you incur the added expense of making two (virtually) identical engines, with non-compatible parts (that are just “close enough” that you could probably make some big mistakes on a rebuild?) Modern manufacturing tends to install one wiring harness, for instance, even in cars lacking the options the wires control; plausibility argues that there is ONE engine; that Xw-20 oils are CAFE-driven (“optimum economy with acceptable wear” is how Toyota puts it, I believe); Xw-30 is what they use in markets where they aren’t chasing that 0.5% MPG bump (and can thus spec “acceptable economy with optimal wear” oils.)
I understand that thicker oil can cause more consumption in some cases. If the scraper rings aren’t real strong, thicker oil is harder to scrape back down into the pan. Some of the European brands are also made this way on purpose for better upper cylinder lubrication with spirited driving. The Honda S-2000 and Cadillac Northstar engines were made this way too.
