I’m not an engineer or a mechanic. I’ve never taken a filter apart and couldn’t tell the difference anyway. That’s why I just use AC or Honda filters. I don’t know but if its good enough for Honda and GM, that’s what I’ll use-as long as I can find them. There was a time when you couldn’t hardly buy AC anywhere except the dealer.
Regardless of what anyone’s opinion is on whether anything is actually proven by cutting apart filters and comparing the quality of their construction, I do think Fram’s basic oil filter at least is rather shoddier than others’ offerings. Why?
Fram filter+cold start=engine noise. Wix filter+cold start=quiet engine. That’s enough of a reason for me to buy something else besides Fram.
There is more to quality control than whether a cardboard end is used or a metal end. The most important quality issue is conformance to specifications. If the Fram design meets the specifications of the manufacturer, is another filter better just because it exceeds the manufacturers specifications? It appears that most here would argue yes, but that is not always so.
If the manufacturers spec is for a filter to have adequate filtering and flow capacity at the end of its oil change interval on an engine at the end of its design life, then making a filter that is twice as good is only “gilding the lilly”.
What counts the most for qualified filters is the number of defects found in a specified batch. Fram is a six sigma company, meaning that it has achieved a level of conformance of no more than three defects per million. I don’t know if any of the other filter manufacturers have meet this standard yet.
I do know that I bought what I thought was the best filter on the market, and paid a premium price for it only to find it full of metal shavings inside due to the thread cutter having a burr on it. I called their 1-800 number to report it and basically got one of the most disinterested customer service reps I have ever run across. I don’t use those filters anymore.
I also changed away from Fram filters that I had been using for almost 50 years because I was getting lifter noise on morning startup with my 3.3 Chrysler minivan. I read on a Chrysler minivan forum that many owners were experiencing this with both Fram and Mopar filters.
The poster suggested a Motorcraft filter, I tried one, and no more lifter noise.
I don’t know or care about specifications or quality control because I have no way of checking them but I do care about lifter noise that says to me thet the oil has drained out of the filter overnight and my engine is running without oil pressure while the filter re-fills.
To everyone who claims there is nothing wrong with Fram’s cheap line of oil filters,I have a question:
If the filter were allowing oil to pass through unfiltered, how would you know? Many regulars claim oil filters are largely unnecessary, and with as often as many of our regulars change their oil, I’m not sure they would know the difference if they had a malfunctioning oil filter.
Let’s hypothetically say you change your oil and filter every 3,000 miles. If half of the oil filters you used were defective in some way, how would you know the difference?
I’m not sure any of us would be able to tell the difference without a used oil analysis.
If Fram filters were allowing large amounts of unfiltered oil to occur, I’d expect a large number of engine failures to result, which aren’t happening. If you’re saying that these defective filters are being changed enough to conceal the problem, well, then I think we’re into the realm of trying to prove a problem where no data exists to support it. MIGHT there be something? Maybe, but we have no data (engine failures) to support it being a problem. So I’m not going to worry about it.
If the filter were allowing oil to pass through unfiltered, how would you know?
You can say that about ANY filter.
Look up the ISO 4548-12 oil filter test? It’s a test to determine the quality of a filter. Not just how good it’s filtering…but IF it’s filtering. Overall construction, Oil Pressure.
ISO set’s a minimum guideline for each part of the test. MOST filter companies (including Fram) EXCEED that test.
Many regulars claim oil filters are largely unnecessary
Maybe true…but anyone who says that is saying it without actually knowing. All they know is that it worked for THEM under certain conditions for certain # of miles. There is no way they can for certain that it WILL be fine in all situations…or even MOST situations…or for that matter all they can say is that it worked for ONE situation.
If half of the oil filters you used were defective in some way, how would you know the difference?
I’m of the belief that you will be able to tell the difference. Maybe not right away. Might take over 100k miles. I personally don’t think an engine will last much over 100k miles if the oil is only filtered half the time. Engine damage will occur. Scared cylinder walls or damaged bearing. But it will happen a lot sooner then expected.
Like Mike said, this whole line of argument could be made about any oil filter. What if XYZ filters used defective filter media, metal end caps and all?
And I don’t think ‘many regulars’ claim oil filters are ‘largely unnecessary’. A couple, maybe…
I am sure that many Fram oil filters are made to OK specs for the required need but having one where daylight can shine through 1/4 inch gaps in the filter media where it joins the end is not OK. Now it is a Six Sigma company BUT what if their QA doesn’t catch more than 3 in a million errors? Obviously a lot of people use this brand of filter. Some have issues and some don’t. The anti-drainback valve/engine noise on startup seems to be one of the biggest complaints I see here and elsewhere.
Also, I wasn’t saying that never changing your oil and only adding oil when the oil pressure warning light comes on is the way to take care of your engine up to 300,000 miles. I just happened to know a guy that did this and someone got that far with his vehicle. The engine still ran when it was disposed of due to rust and other issues. It was going to take $6000 to make it pass a basic inspection. Talk about a true clunker if there ever was one…
I usually try to pick up a Wix, Bosch, KN, or Mobil 1 filter when they are on sale, often with the inclusion of synthetic oil in the deal. So I run synthetic oil and a filter that is considered better than the basic Fram and change my oil every 4000-5000 miles. Sure, this may be overkill but I don’t have any engine problems either. One of my trucks has 300,000 miles and doesn’t use any oil or have excess clatter so this must not be a bad thing.
I remember seeing some claims on the last Mobil 1 filter I bought that seemed like they might not matter for most engines. The burst pressure of the metal canister is 6x the rating of competing makes. How many here have had issues with a filter rupturing? Sure, this sounds good and is probably true but does it really matter for most people? I would be more concerned about road debris flying up and puncturing the filter. The extra strength likely helps with this. Also, this filter claims to filter a much smaller size dirt particle than most. I don’t remember the size but it was published on the box. Again, if this size is much smaller than the film thickness of the oil, this is irrelevant. Sure, it may sound good but if the dirt is so small that it floats within the oil film, it won’t damage the engine.
Lots of people get a lot of miles out of their engines using Fram filters. Most people probably overchange their oil which may hide filter deficiencies by removing dirt in the oil before it becomes much of a problem. I personally choose not to use Fram filters. I buy what I consider to be a better brand on sale for not much more. I plan ahead and get 2-3 filters at a time. I never pay full price for a premium filter.
Some have issues and some don't.
No…the answer is MOST don’t have issues…in fact the VAST majority don’t have problems.
The anti-drainback valve/engine noise on startup seems to be one of the biggest complaints I see here and elsewhere.
I probably have well 1 million miles on Fram filters in many different vehicles…and I’ve NEVER EVER heard any engine noise what-so-ever on startup. Never had an issue with any anti-drainback valve on ANY filter…this includes Fram.
Most of your and many others unfounded complaints have been about the canister. I own two vehicles right now that don’t have a canister. The canister is part of the engine. All I replace is filter element and two gaskets. Most vehicles are going that way. I can wait to see what the Fram haters start complaining about then.
Yes, my hypothetical question could apply to any brand or any model of oil filter.
If your [INSERT BRAND HERE] oil filter were to malfunction, how would you know? How would the lack of oil filtration manifest itself in a way you would notice?
Considering your assertion that it might take 100,000 miles to notice the damage done by defective oil filters, doesn’t it make sense to spend a couple dollars more to ensure I get a quality oil filter? We’re talking about spending an extra $40 or so over the course of 100,000 miles. That seems like pretty cheap insurance.
Whitey, if you prefer to spend a couple of extra dollars to ensure that you get good quality, I support your decision to do so. And I do support your philosophy that it’s worth a few extra bucks for “cheap insurance”, regardless of how much of the feeling is fact-based and how much of it is perception.
But I would ask you one question: how do you know that the more expensive filter is good quality? Have you done lab tests? Have you done destructive forensic analysis? What criteria do you use to evaluate the filters?
Personally, I’ve driven cars for over 45 years on Fram and even WalMart filters without a single problem, some of them for hundreds of thousands of miles. I also do a quick visual on any filter before installing it to be sure nothing looks out of order, like an unclean inside barrier, residue in the canister, or a bad or missing gasket. I’ve never seen a Fram filter that didn’t look properly manufactured. I’m happy using that long experience as an indicator.
I haven’t personally done any destructive forensic analysis, but I have reviewed analyses performed by others who have posted their results online. The most formative experience I’ve had was when I installed a cheap Fram filter on my car. Upon completion of the oil change, the oil appeared over-filled, even though I had put in the requisite 3.8 quarts of oil. It appeared as though the filter either had a faulty drain-back valve or it lacked a drain-back valve. I considered it a lesson learned and didn’t bother to cut open the filter because I didn’t have a facility in which to do so without making a huge mess and because, regardless of the cause, the problem was easily dealt with by buying a different filter.
I’m always wary of teardown analysis done by laypeople in their garage. The analysis is generally all perception with no criteria and no filter knowledge. The results are purely the individual’s perception.
But if you feel Fram is inferior based on what you’ve seen or experienced, than you should definitely get a filter you feel more comfortable with. Sleeping well at night has value too.
How would the lack of oil filtration manifest itself in a way you would notice?
Easy…Cylinder-wall scaring, Bearing scaring…just to name a couple
Considering your assertion that it might take 100,000 miles to notice the damage done by defective oil filters, doesn't it make sense to spend a couple dollars more to ensure I get a quality oil filter?
And WHO says it’s better quality?
I have over 1million miles on various vehicles that say Fram is a very very good filter.
Mike, is scaring similar to scarring? Or is it a Halloween thing? (
Mike, is scaring similar to scarring? Or is it a Halloween thing?
LOL…both I guess…tis the season
Yes it should be scarring.
To Mike in NH- I used Fram filters for almost 50 years with only 1 problem, had a bad gasket on one. Called Fram and they told me they had had a problem with that filter number and they sent me $40 to clean my driveway.
I kept using Fram filters for another 10 years.
My 2002 Chrysler T & C was getting noisy for a few seconds on cold startup and I just thought it was getting a little wear.
I went on a Chrysler Minivan forum and found a lot of owners were experiencing the same thing and one of them said he had eliminated the noise by using a Motorcraft filter.
I tried the Motorcraft filter and the noise went away and never came back.
I do think a lot of us are overestimating the importance of an oil filter. I owned at least 3 cars that didn’t have one and for years Chrysler recommended changing the filter every other oil change. Our churches 1995 John Deere 325 mower calls for an oil change every 100 hours and a filter change every 200 hours.