Noise after new clutch install - Can't get into any gears

Maintenance/Repairs
,
21

I’ve personally seen a few clutches in which the discs were installed backwards and the springs on the disc were rattling against the flywheel bolts.

An older Subaru with an automatic was once towed in after having head gaskets replaced at another shop. The shop did not have the torque converter fully seated on the 3 sets of splines in the transmission and after about 20 or so miles the center was ripped clean out of the flexplate and the car quit moving with a lot of rattling and grinding going on.
How the car managed to go that far was never explained to me.

Never underestimate what can go wrong. :slight_smile:

22

ROD KNOX WAS RIGHT! IT WAS JUST THE CLUTCH PEDAL THAT NEEDED TO BE ADJUSTED!

So first of all, to all who told me to remove my transmission again, who said it was the throw-out bearing or that the clutch was installed backwards (I’m an idiot, but not a total idiot) without any shred of intelligence or evidence but merely from a completely blind guess, shame on you. Shame, on, you. I could’ve had this thing all apart again, put back together, with the exact same problem simply from a guess with no diagnosis whatsoever. We shouldn’t be in the business of throwing parts and blind guessing, and if you don’t know what’s wrong, then silence is golden. Anyway, Rod Knox was right. You don’t know how happy and relieved I was. Thank you.

23

In other ‘unrelated’ news, the whole reason I installed this new clutch and bearing was in an attempt to fix that original grinding/scraping. So I threw those parts at it, purely on a wild and blind guess and at the suggestion of a random person, as you do of course, and the grinding/scraping is still there. It’s a bit better. It would grind really bad in first, second, and third, and now sometimes it will and won’t grind in first, as it did before but more often won’t now, and it grinds much less in third, but 2nd grinds just as bad as before. I may just live with this, if it’s just an annoying nose, unless driving it as is is doing damage.

-EDIT: For the most part it’s stopped scraping in 1st, though still does sometimes. Still scrapes in 2nd and 3rd, especially 2nd, but sometimes it doesn’t scrape in 2nd and drives perfectly smooth. What might cause intermittent grinding/scraping?

24

This is the old clutch release bearing: http://i.imgur.com/ThzAydi.jpg

It’s uneven, like there was weight on one side of it and bent it towards that direction. So instead of the circle being in the center, it’s towards one end. Also it spins freely and with noise, like a bad shopping wheel cart, not like the new bearing. What might this mean?

Now it doesn’t spin freely, and it spins noisily. Oh it’s a bad bearing for sure.

25

You come across as very ungrateful for the amount of money you paid for the advice.

Maybe any fingerpointing should be towards the person who installed a clutch without knowing how to adjust clutch pedal freeplay; or considering that the synchronizer blocking rings have been scrubbed away due to motoring around and grinding gears on the old clutch.

If the freeplay is correct and the clutch disc is not dragging you need a transmission rebuild or replacement.

26

I suggest that you go somewhere else for advice from now on. Based on the evidence that you gave us, those were all plausible explanations, you just got lucky this time.

27

When shifting to second pause in neutral, release the clutch for a second then press it fully to the floor and slip into 2nd, don’t yank it back. If doing so greatly reduces the scraping your 2nd gear synchronizer is getting week.

I am glad my advice helped. It is usually best to begin with the basics and work your way to the costly, difficult repairs.

And all my advice has a double your money back guarantee.

28

Hey I’m sorry guys I didn’t mean it like that. They really were plausible explanations and I was tongue in cheek kidding. I don’t know what I’m doing and I’m a total idiot and throw parts and make guesses all the time. I was trying to make the joke of saying we ought not to guess and throw parts, when really, that’s my entire strategy which is guessing and throwing parts, lol. And of course, I’m the total idiot that installed the clutch that didn’t know how to adjust the free play, lol. But to be fair I don’t think Rod Knox got lucky; I think he knew what he was talking about.

So maybe it is a transmission problem or a synchronizer, or maybe it’s the transmission input idler bearing, or who knows what anymore. It’s funny, sometimes it grinds in 2nd (And it’s grinding the entire time driving in gear), but every once in a while it doesn’t, and drives really quiet and smooth, and when it does, it feels beautiful. What might cause intermittent grinding/scraping?

Is it damaging to drive it as is like this? If it’s a synchronizer or an input idler bearing, both of those would require a rebuild or replacement anyway, right? So what if I just drive this transmission until it gets worse, and then replace or rebuild it in the future? It seems that most are in agreement that it’s probably something to do with the transmission now. I’m glad I can find these rebuilt manual transmissions for relatively cheap, like $500-$600.

29

Have you checked the oil level?

And, when driving with the clutch dragging the synchronizers take a beating.

30

Yeah I’ve drained and filled the oil level but I’ll double check. Used Amsoil Synchromesh. I bought this car cheap off of someone who probably abused it. So a mis-adjusted clutch pedal can destroy a transmission? Man oh man.

The oil was really clean I think, I could be wrong. I still have it and can take another look. But there didn’t seem to be much gold in there, but again I could be wrong. I don’t know why I bother speaking anymore.

I’ve heard that bad synchronizers only grind when shifting, but my car grinds driving the entire time in gear. But sometimes (5% of the time) it doesn’t grind! Intermittently! And 1st rarely grinds anymore like it did before the clutch install! So confused! Maybe it was the synchromesh or the pedal adjustment or the bearing or maybe it was magic…

31

Okay, @Sole. That noise while travelling, fully engaged in 2nd gear but no other is unlikely to be the synchronizer. Is there any noise when moving in reverse?

32

No, no grinding when in reverse, just your normal reverse whirring I’ve always heard in every manual transmission car I’ve driven. There was a TSB about reverse noise, or something, but I haven’t noticed anything out of the ordinary.

I guess it’s safe to just drive this thing until it stops working, and then install a rebuilt transmission? I found one for $550, and that sounds swell to me :). I have heard of different fluid concoctions and synchromesh fluids really helping, but with the noise level of this grinding, I think it’s too far gone. But maybe the Amsoil helped some because 1st doesn’t nearly as much as before, and 3rd grinds much quieter now. Unless it was something else.

What would kill a clutch release bearing? Maybe it’s that transmission input idler bearing or something. I have no idea what I’m even saying or what that is.

33

Holding the clutch pedal down wears out the throw out bearing as does having the clutch adjusted with zero slack in the linkage.

34

OK, I get you now. We do occasionally get someone here playing games, particularly the “you are wrong wrong wrong” game. I do have a very off the wall possibility that might be the cause of the grinding going into second gear. CV Joint.

I had a car that did this, mainly going into third, but the CV joint boots tore up so I replaced the axles, first with remans that lasted about a month, then with new aftermarket (read Chinese) axles. The new axles not only solved the clicking noise, for some reason the grinding went away.

Like I said, this is way off the wall and I don’t think I’d recommend that you change the axles just to see if that works. If you do have axle issues or CV joint boots failure in the future, I’d recommend aftermarket new axles over remans, just in case. In the meantime, try shifting at a lower RPM.

I typically shift from first to second as soon as the clutch engages and the car starts rolling. I go into third before I even cross a regular two lane intersection. I do the bulk of my accelerating in third gear.

35

I did replace the driver’s side drive axle with a remanufactured one. That makes me think of other possibilities like a wheel bearing or who knows what. What baffles me is the intermittent nature of it, that sometimes it grinds and sometimes it doesn’t.

Here’s another shot in the dark - A bearing in the transmission? There are different bearings in the transmission. It is a known problem with Hondas but I’ll have to look into it more on the symptoms.

Input Shaft Bearings

"If your vehicle had an input shaft bearing go bad, that is usually because of two major reasons.

  1. The transmission fluid did not reach the bearing and it ran dry for a prolonged period of time.
  2. The transmission to engine relationship was off center and the transmission input shaft was not concentric with the pilot bearing in the flywheel and therefore the input shaft bearing took a major beating."

“My tranny was making noise too. Took it to the transmission rebuild shop and told him I was sure I had a bad input shaft bearing (making noise accelerating in lower gears) and also needed a new clutch. He opened it up and said no it was bad differential bearings. And by the way, needed a new first gear because he didn’t like the wear pattern on it. So, complete tranny rebuild, clutch and first gear replacement. But baby she runs sweet now. Cost me about $1,800.”

Judging from that first video, it seems easy to replace that bearing and I wish I would have when I had the transmission removed. Oh well, you live and learn. I’ve heard of something finding a used civic transmission for $50, lol. But I can get a rebuilt one for $550.

a.) I could remove the transmission, pop open the case, and try to replace some bearings. Hopefully that wouldn’t be too difficult. A sort of partial rebuild.

b.) Or I could drive this thing until it dies, and then try a partial rebuild (just replace some bearings.)

c.) Or drive it until it dies, and then just replace it with a cheap used transmission instead of a rebuilt one. Hard to argue with $50 over $550, lol. And there are plenty priced in between, and this car is just a commuter with horrifying faded/oxidized paint, so I’d be okay with a used transmission. And while it’s out, I’ll replace some bearings on the used one, if it’s cheap and easy, I’ve heard the bearings are cheap. Because the damage will have been done on mine, and a used one would probably be in better shape, so probably better to buy a used one. And if it’s cheap and easy, just like preventative maintenance, replace some bearings. Maybe we should always replace the bearings on a clutch replacement, like how we replace throw out bearings and pressure plates, not necessarily because they need them, but because it’s cheap and safer and is just cheap preventative maintenance. The guy in the first video makes replacing the input shaft bearing seem easy, but maybe special tools are needed or who knows what I don’t know.

So I think c.) is the smartest overall decision. Drive it until it dies, then replace it with a dirt cheap used transmission. And change some bearings while I’m at it, if it’s cheap and easy to do so. She still gets me from point A to B.

But for learning and closure and curiosity’s sake, I do wonder whether my problem is a bearing inside the transmission.

36

You had the work done so why are you considering option a, b or c? Are you just quoting someone else? BTW, no pilot bearing on the Honda, maybe that is why they are hard on the input shaft bearing.

If you were quoting someone else, then I agree with option c and try shifting sooner at lower RPMs. BTW, doubt its a wheel bearing, but I would replace the wheel bearings when you replace the rotors, if this is one of the models with the captive rotors. Otherwise, wait until they actually fail.

Edit: yours has captive rotors.

37

Yeah I was quoting other people and their experiences and what they did, seeing if it was similar to mine.

But here’s the thing. I just discovered something extraordinary. If I’m super light on the gas, I’ll still move and accelerate just fine, and the grinding goes away. If I give it more gas, the grinding returns. NO GRINDING IF I’M LIGHT ON THE GAS PEDAL! Who knows what that means. I know one thing that means, I can probably continue driving this thing for a while ;).