Understandable…But now now you have to take the shops word that it was: “They claimed it was full of oil and tried to start the poor thing about 20 more times–each time with my engine jumping and sounding terrible. I had it towed to their shop where they told me this morning that the van is running fine and “there must have been an air pocket in the throttle body”. Is this BS? What do I do now?”
The "air pocket in the throttle body " is certainly B.S. so now it’s a waiting game…But if it seized up for lack of oil, major damage was done and that damage will manifest itself shortly…
Yes, the best witness in this situation is yourself. Whether or not there was oil in the engine may remain a mystery, unless your engine soon fails, then we’ll know.
It’s impossible to make a blanket statemnet as to how far an engine can go with no oil. It depends on the oil, the engine, the engine condition, how aggressively the engine is driven, and whether or not Saturn is aligned with Jupiter.
I remember a TV commercial where the oil company (can’t recall which) filled an engine with oil, ran it, draned it, and then turned it back on. They were making the point that their oil stuck so well, and lubricated so well, that the engine could run just on the leftover coating.
It’s the “engine soon fails” part that concerns me the most…I’m going to go pick up the van now. Maybe they will put their “air pocket in the throttle body” explanation in writing, but I doubt it. I’ll see what I can get them to confess. Thanks for the sage advice everybody.
If the vehicle was driven without oil until friction stopped the engine I don’t think they will be able to return your van to you without some noticeable engine noise.
Nevada 546 has most likely seen through the confusion and identified the problem. It seems so very unlikely that an engine could somehow be rejuvinated by adding oil after it “seized” from lack of oil. But it would be advisable to get the car to a dealership so that a mechanic who has experience with that particular vehicle can look it over.
They might put some ungodly thick oil in there to disguise the problem long enough to get her to drive it off their property, at which point they’re planning to claim she must have beat the hell out of it after she left in order to score a new engine off of them.
In a shop I once owned, an employee neglected to replace the oil after an oil change. The 302 Ford van went 4 miles before it seized up and stopped. I went out to the van, added 5 quarts of oil and started it up, lifters all loose and clattering…After a few minutes it settled down and seemed to be running fine. Smooth and quiet. I couldn’t believe it…Two weeks later, I get a phone call, the van tossed a rod through the block while driving down the road and it had been towed to a Ford dealer where they replaced the engine…My insurance company dealt with it after that…
I dont know, if the light was off and did not come on… Then I would think the motor is fine and had oil… Another clue is that it was running fine until it stopped, if it truly was out of oil and was “seizing” up. I think it would have started to lose power, and given some signs of impending doom…
I am thinking that the OP’s choice of words IE “seize” is throwing us all off.
Just got back from the shop. They put everything in writing; the whole scenario–I had to force them to; they didn’t have anything but my keys for me when I walked in. At my request they even added, “Possible that air pocket built up in throttle body and caused no throttle response. Cannot diagnose because could not replicate issue.” The manager signed it and there’s a date/time stamp on it from the printout already. They seem on the “up and up” to me, except for the obvious. They drove it 23 miles according to the odometer. I had my kids with me and I very seriously told them that if my engine was running without oil, and was thus damaged, I needed to know for the safety of the two little ones. They maintained their innocence throughout. I even told them that responses to my problem on Cartalk.com indicated they were lying and that didn’t bother them, either. And YES, my husband checked the dipstick before we left and showed me how to do it from now on!
Sincere thanks for the follow up. While I still don’t believe a word they told you, there’s only so much you can do. If you do have any problems in the next few years, like excess oil usage, power loss, or anything else that might be related, at least you have everything documented so you can try to go after them.
Yes, I feel like I’ve at least got proper documentation. We’re taking it to the dealer next Saturday–the first chance we’ve got. I’ll be on pins and needles driving it…
“Possible that air pocket built up in throttle body and caused no throttle response.”
I can’t believe they actually wrote that down. Can anyone make any sense out of it?
I guess it does give me another theory - which would be a rag left in the air intake. If it was left in there somewhat loose, the van could have started out great, but if it suddenly got sucked up onto the throttle body that would certainly create some excitement.
Although I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t just tell you that and say something like “sorry for the mistake. Here’s a voucher for your next oil change on us…”
At any rate, I really don’t think this was an engine wrecking/lack of oil event. The “no oil” went into the subject; “one of those cheap places” and “seized” went into the post and I jumped to conclusions.
Ask your dealer to drain the engine oil into a pan they can inspect the oil in, remove the oil pan, and look for metal shavings in the oil pan.
If the car was run for 4 miles without oil, then there should and will be bits of metal in your oil, and in your oil pan.
If the shop just poured in the right amount of oil after discovering their mistake, all these metal shavings will be there to find. Even if they poured in fresh oil, ran the engine for a couple of minutes, drained the oil again, and refilled it, there will still be bits of metal all over the place.
However, if there’s no signs of metal in the engine after looking at the oil and oil pan, then you can take from that the idea that something simple was left unhooked, and that they reconnected when you weren’t paying attention.
As for the idea of a pocket of air getting into the throttle body, and that caused the engine to stall, that’s the dumbest excuse I’ve ever heard of in my life.
Think of this small fact:
All the throttle body does is pass air.
It takes air from the air filter box, and sends it to the intake valves.
Nothing else.
A pocket of air can’t do anything negative to the throttle body, period.
That bit about the air pocket is about as ludicrous as it gets. Anyone who would say that, and put it in writing no less, should not be trusted one inch.
It’s possible to have a heat related seizure due to no oil and once the engine cools a bit may start up and run fine, or at least apparently fine.
Keep in mind that a few cans of strategically placed Motor Honey can keep things quiet; or at least temporarily until enough time has lapsed to shuffle the blame off on something else.
I never heard of an air pocket in the throttle body causing a problem. Air pockets in the cooling system can cause overheating, but they didn’t service the cooling system right? I’m guessing this isn’t an oil problem. Instead, it is something they did by accident related to changing the air filter. And they are covering their tracks by the comment about the air pocket. I think they discovered the problem and have fixed it already. Give your car a good test drive, listen carefully for any unusual noises, especially on acceleration, and tell us here what you find out.
There are often vacuum hoses and tank/cannister venting hoses that are in the way and have to be temporarily removed to replace the air filter. And there are also airflow and temperature sensors in that area of the engine compartment. If a sensor wasn’t replaced correctly, or it was damaged somehow, or even if it was just a vaccuum hose left disconnected, any of those things could make the engine computer confused as to what to do to get the air/fuel ratio correct, and the car might well stall out.
If the oil was bone dry, I would have expected you’d have heard a very definite and unusual clicking/clancking noise coming from the engine within a quarter mile of the place when you drove away. Since you didn’t mention hearning anything unusual from the engine after the oil change, I’m assuming the only symptom was the car engine coming to a stop.
There’re a few things you can do (or have done) if you want to do a little more investigation.
Make sure the oil is clean and at the right point on the dipstick now.
I’m assuming the Check Engine light never came on. Even so, ask your mechanic to check any ECM codes ready to be read, or pending. If there are pending ones, that would be the symptom of the shop fixing a problem they created by leaving a vacuum hose off, etc. You can post any codes found here, and the experts here may be able to help you with interpretting them.
If you are unsure of the condition of the engine; i.e. you think they forgot to add the oil, have your own mechanic do a compression test.
OK, maybe we were all led astray by the term “seized” after an oil change at a cheapy place. Maybe instead the car just stalled. They replaced the air cleaner so maybe they got the air sensor disconnected or the MAF and once it went into closed loop it stalled. Whoever looked at it back at the shop saw what it was and doesn’t want to own up to it. The air bubble thing is really bogus but maybe the manager is clueless to what the technician did. On the other hand, maybe there is a coincidental problem that developed although I don’t believe in coincidences. Wouldn’t it just be nice if the guys would fess up and solve the mystery?
I can see draining the oil and doing an oil analysis just in case but it might be quite expensive to pull the oil pan just to look.