I have a 99 chevy k2500 suburban with a 7.4 liter engine. I had a tune-up two weeks ago, all was good. the next day I got a muffler put on, the guy said I didn’t need dual mufflers, it was a waste of mufflers, and that I only needed a single muffler and single pipe. Well, after that I felt the truck was limited on power and acceleration. I could not pass or accelerate up hills. I took it up hwy 80 to Truckee and on the big hills it had no acceleration at all, When I got to Truckee I pulled off and listened and heard some unsettling noises from the engine. Took it to a shop, (4th of July weekend, no one open!) a 76 station was open everyday, they looked at it the next morning and said the engine is blown and I need a new engine. I was upset. I towed it to another place that I knew and trusted, they said the same thing. but they also said, “this muffler system is too small for this engine, this could have caused the damage.” And other shops have agreed. Do I have a case?
It’s likely that the wrong exhaust system did damage your engine. However, this is complicated by the fact that you kept driving the car and took it on a long hilly drive when you knew something was wrong. If this ends up in court, that could come back to bite you. Did any warning lights come on at any time?
Regardless, it’s probably best to start by getting a written statement (or preferably two) stating that you have engine damage caused by a restriction from an improperly installed exhaust system. Take copies to the owner of the original shop and ask nicely how they plan to handle it. If they don’t give you an acceptable answer, let them know that you’ll be hiring an attorney next and do that.
Don’t most 454 truck engines have a single exhaust as OE? A single 2 inch pipe will carry more exhaust than dual 1.5 inch? But of course there is the issue of catalytic converters which was not mentioned. The details of the exhaust pre and post repair would be needed to determine if exhaust back pressure was caused which damaged the engine. I would suppose that if there were a restriction the result would be an excessively rich fuel mixture and retarded spark. The exhaust would likely glow and when the engine was shut off the manifolds would jingle as they cooled plus the catalytic converter would be toasted which would quickly worsen the power loss situation.
Did the Check Engine light glow, or worse flash when there seemed to be a loss of power?
My 99 454 Subbie only had one muffler. It was a 3 inch inlet and outlet but only one. The total lack of power definitely points to a restricted exhaust but I can’t think of how that wold cause destruction of the engine without some sort of warning (overheating being the big one) allowing you to shut it off before it blew.
So, what “blew”? The head gaskets? Cracked head or block? A connecting rod through the block? What is your mechanics definition of “blown engine”? I won’t go so far as to say the muffler caused the engine to blow until I know more.
I did experience a catalytic converter failure on a 1984 Chevy Cavalier. It plugged the exhaust so badly the engine barely ran. GM replaced it under extended warrantee. No harm was done to engine as far as I could tell. I traded in the car with 207,000 miles on it.
The shop should have replaced the muffler(s) with the same system you had on it. You have a case.
I’m curious; was this a “weld 'em on, we fit 'em on” chain shop that uses their own generic mufflers… even if they’re not the same as the originals?
I’m a bit skeptical about the muffler causing the engine problem. What all was done during this “tune up”?
What was the engine oil and transmission fluid level like at the time of the tow in?
You know, those big inch motors in the old days (500 Cadillac, 455 Olds/Buick, Chevy 454, etc) would run like a scalded rat on a single exhaust which was often 2" diameter or less. Duals were an option that would provide 10-20 Horsepower more.
What is the catalytic converter situation like? Possibly clogged? You’ve already had a muffer installed and in most cases the converter would die before the muffler.
I think you have a case. What they did in essence was to restrict your exhaust. That’s never a good thing. Get a second opinion on that “blown” engine. It may just be that oil was blown out of the engine due to the restriction imposed by the muffler.
I’m skeptical, too, at least that we have the whole story. A restrictive exhaust will hurt performance, but blow an engine? A '99 has fuel injection and computer controls, it should be able to match air and gas needs quite well. Something else going on.
Oh, they converted it to a single exhaust. Yes that may have caused the damage.
OK4450, you’ve sort of made the OP’s case by stating that dual exhaust were an option on the old large displacement motors for an extra 10-20 horsepower. In the case of the OP, dual exhaust were replaced by a single on a Y-pipe and the OP noticed a decrease in performance.
There is an IMHO unscrupulous chain out there that replaces mufflers with whatever they have on the shelf of their own brand and welds them on. They bastardize the pipes as much as necessary to get the muffler on, seemingly oblivious to whether it’ll work or not. I’m still wondering if that’s what happened in this case.
shade tree mechanics sometime go by the motto “if it don’t fit don’t force it- get a bigger hammer” and if that is the situation here the shop would be considered guilty. But what is the damage? If the OP goes to his dealer they might insist that his only alternative is a new truck. And if he goes to a shop specializing in overhauling engines they might insist that a rebuild would be the perfect solution.
At this juncture I see no evidence of damage to the engine, only of a restricted exhaust. However, an exhaust restricted to the level described by the OP could if left unaddressed cause overheating of the converter and subsequent damage to same. Or perhaps even a manifold fracture from overheating.
I truly think the OP needs to get the exhaust system corrected and see how it goes from there.
OK, who here has ever seen an engine BLOWN by a restricted exhaust? The OP’s two mechanics said “Took it to a shop, (4th of July weekend, no one open!) a 76 station was open everyday, they looked at it the next morning and said the engine is blown and I need a new engine. I was upset. I towed it to another place that I knew and trusted, they said the same thing.”
Well, I’ve seen cars driven in with clogged converters that would not run any faster than 30-35 MPH on the flat much less mountain terrain and they suffered no engine damage whatsoever.
There is only one car that I’ve ever seen ruined by a clogged cat and that was because 10-15 MPH of flat on the floor coughing was its top speed and the guy kept driving with the temp gauge pegged out. He BBQed that engine to oblivion.
However, we’re talking mufflers here; not converters. I have never in my lifetime seen or heard of an engine damaged from any type of muffler installation.
It would seem to me that if the muffler was the problem in this case as claimed and if severe enough to lunch an engine it would have been noticeable upon leaving the shop at which point the OP should have whipped a U and gone back.
The vehicle in question is 15 years old and had a pipe and muffler replacement. If the exhaust is that trashed then I question the converter. A converter is more of a restriction than any muffler would ever be.
It seems that at some point in time two mufflers were installed replacing the single OEM muffler and now going back to a single muffler will cause damage? If a muffler for a 4 cylinder car was installed there would be a loss in performance but i doubt that is the case.
I think the loss in power was due to an ignition, fuel or engine problem.
hmm … well, I think the OP should rely on the expert advice above. These folks know of which they speak, engine-wise. But if you like to include a driveway diy’er opinion, I can see how a restricted exhaust might reduce the power. But that wouldn’t damage the engine. Or it might cause overheating possibly and that could damage the engine, but you don’t report engine overheating during your long uphill trip from Sacramento to Truckee.
The only other way I could see an exhaust modification like this damaging the engine is if one side of the exhaust system was considerably more blocked than the other. That could create a load imbalance between the cylinders and pistons and could – conceivably at least – rattle the innards enough to cause engine damage. It would be like rev’ing the engine with an improperly balanced driveshaft or flywheel.
I’m saying the engine might be blown, but just a new exhaust system wouldn’t do it. Something else happened.
Agreed with Texases and I don’t know that a Union 76 gas station would be an ideal place to get an engine diagnosis. There was no info mentioned about what type of facility the second one was.