: I expect that eventually SAE will be phased out completely in the next decade or two, but there will still be enough older stuff out there that you will need SAE tools for the foreseeable future.
I’ve been hearing that for 30 years. Hasn’t happened yet.
SAE has come to mean “inches based” in common usage, and that’s okay with me. Just as the English call a “trunk” a “boot” it’s all just semantics.
I’ll keep my SAE tools as long as I still have to maintain and repair my snowblower, my lawnmower, my plumbing (including its worm-drive clamps on the vent pipe fittings), my home electrical systems (with the inch-based fittings on the junction boxes), and the countless other things around the house that have yet to go metric.
I guess I’m both SAE and metric. I’m comfortable with both. Perhaps the real solution to the problem is better math programs in the pmary and secondary schools. Working with both is easy with some simple math skills.
MikeInNH said: "I expect that eventually SAE will be phased out completely in the next decade or two, but there will still be enough older stuff out there that you will need SAE tools for the foreseeable future.
I’ve been hearing that for 30 years. Hasn’t happened yet."
Since SAE (the Society of Automotive Engineers) is a society of engineers and not a measurement standards organization, why would they be phased out?
Ametrika…I guess you have not been reading the prior posts very well. SAE is the common term for inch based measurement of tools. It’s still in use today and the term is still on the packaging for new tools. We know what you mean but you have to understand that the term SAE is ingrained in our language as “inch based” tools. I’m afraid the term will be around for many decades to come so go with the flow.
MikeInNH said: "I expect that eventually SAE will be phased out completely in the next decade or two, but there will still be enough older stuff out there that you will need SAE tools for the foreseeable future.
NO I DID NOT SAY THAT…Re-read the post…I was referencing the post made by oblivion.
a link to SAE’s metric users guide:
SAE states its preference for metric:
In 1969, the SAE Board of Directors issued a directive that “SAE will include SI units in SAE Standards and other technical reports.” During the ensuing several decades, SAE metric policy evolved and implementation progressed. The SAE’s current metric policy is, “Operating Boards shall not use any weights and measures system other than metric (SI), except when conversion is not practical, or where a conflicting world industry
practice exists.”
Principal driving forces for SAE metrication were: worldwide movement to metric units; enactment of United States Federal metric legislation and the resultant national metrication activity; the international trend in industry and business throughout the world, and the growing international scope of SAE. Currently, the widespread, strong
support for international standards harmonization is another key motivating factor in the global metrication movement.
TSB 003 (formerly SAE J916) has been updated periodically, to reflect SAE metric policy evolution— as well as developments in the specific, formal content of SI; and in the correct, consistent usage and application of SI…which sometimes is referred to as “the modern version of the metric measurement system.”
SAE has distanced itself from USC.
United States Federal metric legislation, what a joke. As I said earlier, if the US government truly wanted to convert to metric, we would have speed limits in kph and road sign distance to location would be in kilometers instead of miles. All new purchases would use metric dimensions and metric fasteners.
keith said: United States Federal metric legislation, what a joke. As I said earlier, if the US government truly wanted to convert to metric, we would have speed limits in kph and road sign distance to location would be in kilometers instead of miles. All new purchases would use metric dimensions and metric fasteners.
A joke on the US, but a blessing for the EU (especially Germany) and developing countries in Asia. America’s mistake has become their gain.
First of all there is no metric unit known by the symbols kph. The correct symbol for kilometres per hour is km/h. Both SAE metric practice (TSB 003) and FMVSS 101 (speedometer marking) require the correct km/h, as does the SI Brochure or NIST SP 330 and the BIPM.
Look at the speedometer display on your car and you will see km/h and not kph
Metric fasteners are appearing on all new cars (foreign and domestic) and all products imported. In addition to the automotive industry, you have heavy machinery companies like John Deere and Caterpillar using metric fasteners. Even Harley-Davidson’s newer products use metric fasteners.
It is just that most people are not aware of what is metric in their possession.
Ametrika said - Why do you people insist on using the term SAE to mean inch? It doesn’t! SAE (The Society of Automotive Engineers) switched to metric back in the '70s when the automotive industry did. Thus SAE is more metric than inch as that is what they specify today, in the 21-st century.
Here are just a few examples of where SAE is used to mean a measuring system…
Craftsman (The largest seller of tools in the US) - http://www.sears.com/craftsman-48-pc-sae-metric-thread-restorer-kit/p-00942275000P
Snapon (The preferred tool by Professional mechanics) - http://www1.snapon.com/display/231/ToolNews/FeaturedTools/2010/Snap_on_Must_Have_Tool_April_SAE_and_Metric_Nut_Driver_Sets_04_29_10_final.pdf
So YES…the term SAE is used to mean a measuring system by mechanics and engineers in the Automotive industry
It is easier to remember tap drill sizes in metric. The tap drill size is simply the maximum bolt diameter minus the thread pitch.
For example, the tap drill size for an M6x1 is simply a (6 mm-1 mm) or a 5 mm drill.
In contrast, a comparable ¼ inch bolt requires either a #7 or a #3 tap drill, depending upon whether the bolt is NC or NF. Try keeping numbers like 3 and 7 plus a number of alphabetical character sizes in mind. BTW, an M6x1 is about half-way between ¼-20 NC & ¼-28 NF; 24.7 tph to be exact.
MikeInNH 12:21PM
Here are just a few examples of where SAE is used to mean a measuring system...
Craftsman ...
Snap-On ...
So YES ... the term SAE is used to mean a measuring system ...
From Wikipedia: — “SAE” is often used as a blanket term for the nonmetric sizes, despite the technical inaccuracy of that usage.
Regardless of what advertising copywriters write, it is still technically wrong. It is akin to calling an engine a motor. I guess it doesn’t bother some people. 
It don’t bother me. kph km/h yawn.
keith said:
“It don’t bother me. kph km/h yawn.”
I’m not surprised. I’ll let you guess why.
“It’s akin to calling an engine a motor.”
THE HORROR…THE HORROR!!
Mechaniker said:
It is easier to remember tap drill sizes in metric. The tap drill size is simply the maximum bolt diameter minus the thread pitch.
For example, the tap drill size for an M6x1 is simply a (6 mm-1 mm) or a 5 mm drill.
That is not entirely true, but works for an approximation. But you can’t always assume that. The tap drill size is determined by the percent of thread desired. For an M6 x 1.0 thread with a desire for 82 % thread, then the drill size would be 6 x 0.82 or 4.9 mm. A 5 mm drill would be close enough.
For a 12 mm screw, 12 x 0.82 = 9.8 or about 10 mm. Your example would make it 10.25 mm, which is for an 85 % thread.
If you are not real particular about the percent thread then your approximation is doable.
From Wikipedia: — “SAE” is often used as a blanket term for the nonmetric sizes, despite the technical inaccuracy of that usage.
Regardless of what advertising copywriters write, it is still technically wrong. It is akin to calling an engine a motor. I guess it doesn’t bother some people.
Notice that Wikipedia didn’t say it was a blanket statement for non-metric measurements. It is used as a blanket term for sizes. This refers to the fact that SAE has specifications for tools and fasteners that were inch based previous to 1969. After 1969 they started to include metric and as they evolved they made metric the primary standard. Thus it is wrong, very wrong (and very ignorant) to continue in the error that SAE is associated only with non-metric units and products because it denies SAEs evolution into the metric system.
“Thus it is wrong, very wrong (and very ignorant) to continue in the error that SAE is associated only with non-metric units and products because it denies SAEs evolution into the metric system.”
Man, I’d hate to be around you if somebody ordered a ‘Coke’ but meant ‘Pepsi’! Life is WAY too short to insulting strangers by calling them ‘ignorant’ over an issue as small as this.
Texases
I think it is very clear that our new “friend”, Ametrika, is obsessed with the Metric System. Once he has shot his load, so to speak, on this topic–in any thread that is even vaguely related to his obsession–he will likely seek other venues to educate poorly-informed folks (all of us, apparently).
After awhile, nobody in this forum will even bother to read his responses, simply because we know that they will simply be yet another rant on the same topic.
“United States Federal metric legislation, what a joke. As I said earlier, if the US government truly wanted to convert to metric, we would have speed limits in kph and road sign distance to location would be in kilometers instead of miles.”
I do believe those in government who should be making the decisions like this would chose to go metric. However we are in a world where decisions are made by voters few of witch have any idea what metric really means, so they don't want to make a change, because they fear the unknown and the politicians are not going to take a stand on an issue that the voters don't understand an therefor the will not make a change.For a 12 mm screw, 12 x 0.82 = 9.8 or about 10 mm. Your example would make it 10.25 mm, which is for an 85 % thread.
Two thread pitches are available for M12:
Where is the Ignore List on this forum?
“Regardless of what advertising copywriters write, it is still technically wrong. IT IS AKIN TO CALLING AN ENGINE A MOTOR. I guess it doesn’t bother some people.”
Really? That’s wrong?
Well, I guess you gave me something to think about, as I wait in line at the Department of Engine Vehicles, to get my enginecycle registered…