@Mike…you are right. $20 a year would be cheap insurance policy. The problem is, there is no insurance as there is absolutely no benefit for it. Without a filter, it’s all about getting rid of the contaminants and the oil is changed much earlier then it would be in a filtered medium negating all of the benefits of synthetic. Changing regular oil earlier under tough conditions would always be better insurance then using a synthetic… It’s like using high test gasoline when the manufacturer never calls for it. Don’t get me wrong, I have no problems with you doing it, but as my engineer friends have often told me, it’s a useless insurance plan. Most important is motor oil weight and grade recomended by the manufacturer and change intervals. Everything else is superfluous. Put that extra $20 into running ethanhol free gas through before storage. On my Echo trimmer/ brush cutter and Huskey chain saws, I don’t even run regular gas but spend extra for Trufuel or the like. Compared to synthetic two stroke oils, that is money better spent. The manufacturers are scratching their heads at such practices when their owners manuals give you the best advice.
Let me put it this way as far as motor oils are concerned I have over $30k in my tractor, one neighbor has $45 k in his and another over $50k as well as much more in his excavator. We all could use synthetic motor oil. But, the Kubota dealer technicians say, use the recomended oil, change the oil and filters regularly and earlier under certain conditions as the manual says. It’s much more important to use the right grade and weight oils specifically made for the task then to mess with a synthetic that may not. There are no added benefits for us. I can read ! Kubota it seems, doesn’t even recognize synthetic motor oil.
Without a filter, it's all about getting rid of the contaminants and the oil is changed much earlier then it would be in a filtered medium negating all of the benefits of synthetic.
By my Kawasaki lawnmower engine has a filter. And you do NOT negate all the benefits of synthetic if you don’t filter. May diminish it a little.
As for being useless…Show me the data!!!
Let me put it this way as far as motor oils are concerned I have over $30k in my tractor, one neighbor has $45 k in his and another over $50k as well as much more in his excavator.
With those vehicles since you have a much larger oil pan…it may not be beneficial. But my 15hp Kawasaki engine only takes a quart. So I only spend $3/yr.
And very very few car manufacturers recommend synthetic oil…yet synthetic oil has been PROVEN to be a superior oil. Is there a benefit in using it??? Depends on the circumstances. But because the cost to use synthetic oil in a car about 100 times more per year…then the cost is a major concern. But since the cost of a lawnmower oil change is so so cheap…unless you’re dirt poor…the cost ISN’T a factor.
Kubota makes a good tractor so I am sure they know their stuff. Seeing that you can get Rotella full synthetic oil for diesels at Wal-Mart for $20 per 5 quart jug, I think this is the way to go. Rotella is a well respected oil and this price really isn’t much higher than conventional oil. Sure, you can save a few cents per quart but I would rather preserve the life of a nice tractor.
If synthetic oil wasn’t superior, it wouldn’t be factory-fill in high end and performance cars, and not just suggested but REQUIRED in turbo vehicles if you don’t want to void the warranty. There’s a reason F1 and other racing teams use it, and it’s not for prestige or because they just like to spend money. Do you need the benefits in your econobox or lawnmower? Probably not, but it couldn’t hurt, and for such a minimal amount extra, it’s worth it to me.
Yep! Most European cars now require synthetic oils meeting specs exceeding those of most U.S. spec synthetic oils. GM is going to the Dexos spec oils and has required full synthetic in their Corvettes for some time now. If you look at the Dexos approved oils, most but not all are synthetics. I believe there will be a time when most car makers will require synthetics for warranty.
I am of the belief that synthetic oil will benefit everything from lawn mowers to econoboxes to high performance cars. I happen to own Geo Metro as my gas saver car which might just be the econobox to compare all econoboxes. and all the forums for this car swear by the use of synthetics for these tiny but hard working “little engines that could.” This engine was designed in the late 1980’s by Suzuki for the Suzuki Swift which is basically the same car as the Geo Metro. They specified conventional 5W30 at this time but this hot running engine with tight tolerances soon developed problems with sticky lifters and stuck rings with conventional oils. People have found that these engines benefit from the use of synthetics and will run for 500,000 miles without anything more than basic maintenance if good oil is used.
But syn just ain’t better for EVERY application.
Case in point: the GA community found out the hard way that syn-base oils sludge excessively when burning leaded gas. Can’t keep the lead salts suspended as well as plain ol’ dino juice.
Given that we’re discussing filterless engines with rudimentary fuel-metering systems perhaps a synthetic is a poor choice for keeping all the resultant gunk from sludging out?
Case in point: the GA community found out the hard way that syn-base oils sludge excessively when burning leaded gas. Can't keep the lead salts suspended as well as plain ol' dino juice.
Where can you buy Leaded gas???
@MikeinNH: AvGas (aviation gasoline) is known as “100 LL” and dyed blue. This means 100-octane, low-lead (compared to defunct 100 octane green) gasoline.
Use of synthetics is contraindicated in an engine run on 100LL. Certain “experimental” (i.e. non-certificated) engine mfrs reccomend different oils, depending on whether one runs avgas or mogas in said engine.
(Gee, I thought use of avgas as a leaded-gas substitue was well-known amongst the hot-rod set…)
Well since this is a CAR forum…Not too many people know about Aviation gasoline. And the extremely limited use of this type of fuel in cars (less then 0.000000001%). Basically it means it’s insignificant.
Just looking at a couple of my Briggs manuals, using synthetic is not at all clearly acceptable. On my rider, two cyl, it clearly shows synthetic to only be used below 40 degrees. Above that is straight 30 wt. Below zero though only calls for synthetic. Below 40 degrees, the multi-weights are different for synthetic. Now the snow blower is different with synthetic shown for the full temperature scale and the dino with different weights for temp. Of course it would never get used above 40 degrees anyway.
And looking at the Briggs question site, it looks like they may have changed their recommendations to allow synthetic but also put out their own multi weight. So I guess I’m just saying better check for sure what weight and type to use before just throwing the same weight synthetic in instead of dino oil. The other interesting thing is that some sites say to use a zinc suppliment but Briggs says to add no oil supplement. Can be very confusing.
Of course it would never get used above 40 degrees anyway.
You would think so…but not necessarily. Had a snow storm here a few years ago…Over 20". When I woke up to clear the driveway…it was about 45. It was already melting…but was going to take more then a day to melt…and later that night temps were predicted to drop below 0. So I was out there snow-blowing with just a light jacket on. It’s rare…but it does happen.
The idea that all synthetic oils are always better then those recomended by the manufacturer for their products is just not true. It’s not true in Marine applications where Marine environments use oil with special rust inhibitors and other additives. It’s not true with Kubota who wants oils with additives designed obviously for diesels but for their environment and hence, they do not even recognize synthetic motor oils. When NMMA marine testing approves a synthetic, it’s a marine grade synthetic. As yet, many still want you to use standard marine grade oils. This is more true then ever with ethanol drawing more moisture into the combustion chamber then ever before.
I know throwing them in lawn mowers and other general purpose small motors makes the owner feel better, but it just flys in the face logic of always saying" read the manual" then doing something different from their recomendations. As far as lawn mowers are concerned, problems with rusting decks, carbs, hitting rocks and drive trains on self propelled is the over riding reason for replacing them, long before the motor dies if someone is changing their oil according to manufacturers recommendations.
As far as lawn mowers are concerned, problems with rusting decks, carbs, hitting rocks and drive trains on self propelled is the over riding reason for replacing them, long before the motor dies if someone is changing their oil according to manufacturers recommendations.
For your typical 22" homeowner lawnmower…maybe…But my lawnmower is made of 12 gauge steel. Weighs OVER 300lbs. It’s NOT going to rust out any time soon. And my 20 yo Troy built mower is no where near rusting out. I keep it in a shed when not in use. I maintain it very well. Engine runs perfect…It probably cost me an extra $40 over the 20 years to use synthetic over regular dino…yea…I wasted a lot of money didn’t I???
Thought i would get another rise out of you. Why didn’t you tell me that ? I had a good friend with one of those “monsters”. That s not the typical mower …that’s a tractor you walk behind. So, what does Troy built say ?
Sorry…Tow different lawn mowers.
My troy built is your typical home 22" push mower…I use that to mow my duplexes I own.
My home mower is the monster…Ferris 36" cut.
Mobil has some unusual recommendations regarding oils for flat tappet automobile engines
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Flat_Tappets_Collection.aspx
and I am unfamiliar with any roller followers on air cooled lawn and garden type engines.
also, I ran across this in my search
I found some articles on the use of synthetic oils in air-cooled VW engines. The articles indicated that it was very good in an engine with full filtration as it withstands the wider temp variations of the air-cooling. They do indicate that the suggested change interval for a non-filtered engine is so short that the conventional oil will not have a chance to really break down before it is changed because of contamination. Anyway, I am guessing that some of this is true for mowers too. At the same time, the article did indicate that there were probably minor benefits to using synthetic oils in this case.
As for leaded fuel, I also looked into that and it seems synthetics and leaded fuels are a no-no. Either way, I think that the extra cost once or twice per year isn’t a big deal in a mower that holds less than a quart.
I do agree that the deck or wheels will usually fall apart before the engine does but I always find a good deck with a locked up engine to put my good engine on when I destroy a deck or have one rot out. The standard “consumer grade” mowers come with a cheap stamped deck that isn’t built to last at all.
One of my generators indicates that synthetics are a benefit to the engine in cold and hot weather but that the change interval shouldn’t be extended. It isn’t required as per the manual but it does indicate that you might want to keep it filled with synthetic if there is a chance of using it in hot or cold weather which is probably more likely than not where I live.
On an unrelated note, how did you get the post to show when you put links in it? The posts get rejected anytime I try to do this.
Now, in actual practice my mowers get “whatever’s handy” as far as oil goes…but:
It seems to me that “lack of oil filter” + “dusty environment” + “rudimentary fuel metering” + “flat tappet cams” = “use 15-w40 diesel oil”
(To handle lots of contaminants and for the higher ZDDP concentrations.)