'Meanest mom on planet' sells son's car

“Parenting is NOT CONTROLLING or punishing…Sure you may have to do that when they’re younger…But parenting is ALSO guiding, teaching. By setting rules to live by is a way of guidig and teaching.”

That is very true, but it only applies to children, not a 19 year old adult. That is exactly what I try to do with my 12 and 16 year olds. If I’m still “setting rules” when they are 19, I have failed in a major way.

When I graduated from high school in the late 1950’s, many of my classmates got jobs, got married and started a family just as their parents did. These classmates were self-sufficient. Students that went to college believed that it was a privilege and not a right. I,too, work with students at a university. I’ve seen quite a change in the attitudes of many of the 19 year old students since I began my teaching career in 1965. Some of these students believe that they should be given credit in a course merely for showing up for half the meetings of a class. On the other hand, I’ve had a lot of students who are paying their own freight and are quite serious about their coursework.

I agree that some 18 year olds need more “guidance” than others, which is certainly not the same thing as parenting.

Really? I happen to believe that even a 40 year old can benefit from a parent’s advice, which I call parenting. In that case, I am relieved we are only quibbling about the choice of verbiage.

Well, that’s a good point. I read that article earlier today and thought it said 16 rather than 19, and that is a pretty large difference in maturity (at least, it’s supposed to be.)

I’m 24 and have owned all of my vehicles (which has been… I think I’ve had 8 since I was 15), and certainly was A: Never dumb enough to have booze in my car, B: Expected to take care of myself (save for some occasional laundry).

Knowing the dude was 19 rather than 16 puts things in a different light.

At age 19, a person should be responsible for his/her own actions. If “you get a little drunk and land in jail”, then you had better not ask your parents or anyone else to bail you out.

I agree; guess which of these 19 year olds have parents who treat them like adults, and which one have parents who continue to treat them like little kids.

I think some folks have the “cause and effect” aspect of this issue confused.

“Knowing the dude was 19 rather than 16 puts things in a different light.”

Yup, a 16 year old child is a completely different story than a 19 year old adult.

I fully appreciate that your generation had responsibility thrust upon them and for the most part rose to the occasion. I agree the change in culture is mostly negative. I don’t think that is any reason argue that the mother in the news article didn’t do the right thing, though. I even agree that the presence of immature adults is largely caused by poor parenting. I just see it as a change of culture that has happened and we can’t simply un-ring that bell by abandoning those young people who are not emotionally mature. It is kind of fitting, actually, that parents who don’t do their job well are condemned to additional years of responsibility.

…treating a 19 year old adult as a CHILD is a complete waste of time and effort.

It’s kind of funny. Having formerly worked at a community college where most of the students were working adults over the age of 25, I was shocked to hear university employees and faculty describe their students as “kids.” I was always careful to refer to them as “students” since some of them were in their 40s. So when I started working at a university, I made the mistake of correcting my colleagues when they called adult students “kids.” However, when I did, they corrected me. They pointed out that they call them kids because that is how most of them behave. Trust me. The lady who made this arguement to me is as crusty and conservative as you, Craig, and probably agrees with you on 99.9% of your positions. But she calls a spade a spade and being on earth for 18 years isn’t enough alone to earn someone the distinction of “adult.” We don’t raise them here, we just deal with the consequences of those who do, and as those who deal daily with these consequences, we appreciate what this mother has done.

OK, I just have to wonder if the 40+ year old who is receiving the advice thinks of it as parenting? (-;

" I don’t think that is any reason argue that the mother in the news article didn’t do the right thing, though."

Well, if I had been 19 and my parents were planning on selling a car that was titled to me I would have been on the phone with an attorney. If it’s really the parents car that they were allowing their 19 year old son to use (who knows why he can’t buy his own cars by that age), they can do whatever they want. Either way, I would fully expect this 19 year old to split (with or without the car, depending on ownership), if he doesn’t leave (especially after a news story) he deserves to put up with more “parenting.” Maybe he’ll move out by the time he turns 30.

My initial reaction today after seeing the article was “good for her”. After reading the comments here and thinking back to when I was 19 I’m not so sure. Now I never did drink to excess and drive and never ever have more than a glass of wine now, but I did use to carry it in the car. I’m sure I was 19 and a college sophomore and my mom borrowed my VW. Stopped for gas and couldn’t get the hood open but my uncle was there and helped. Got the hood open and there was a six pack. She didn’t say too much but the embarassment of the whole thing made me a lot more cautious. In SD where I went to school, it was legal at 19 but not in MN where I lived. I guess it just depends on the kids and the parents but the embarassment I caused did more than anything. Nothing else needed to be said or done.

Craig:
You are not the odd one. I agree with you 100%. At 19 he is an adult and should be able to take care of himself and pay his own way.
~Michael

That is exactly what I try to do with my 12 and 16 year olds. If I’m still “setting rules” when they are 19, I have failed in a major way.

If you think that a 19yo doesn’t need any guidence then you’re in for a rude awakening…My 20yo at MIT who’s never had a day of trouble in her life…still needs some guidence now and then.

The other thing missed here…is the parent is NOT PUNISHING her son…more of keeping the rest of us safe from her son.

Two points:

  1. I have no problem with parents giving guidance (advice) to their adult children. That is appropriate, but it has to be just advice, not direction. Because it is advice, the recipient is free to accept it, ignore it, or tell the parent to go " take a flying #### at a rolling doughnut (my favorite Kurt Vonnegut quote)." I hope my kids would do the latter if anyone (including me) tried to give them direction at that age, I certainly would have when I was 19.

  2. The parent has absolutely no right (or responsibility) to keep the “rest of us” safe from another adult. If she knows he’s out driving under the influence, she should call the police (just like it was anyone else).

Allow me to relate a similar story. My 18 yr old stepdaughter graduated high school in 1994 with honors in AP courses. She wanted to to away to college and we wanted her to live at home and commute to a local branch. The deal we made was that she could go away but if she got a first term grade lower than a C she would have to return home and commute to a local branch for the second term. My wife and I paid part and my stepdaugher got a loan for part of the first year’s room, board, and tuition. She joined a sorority, played volleyball and tennis and partied. She got Ds and Fs in calculus and physics. Courses that she had already gotten As and Bs in high school. She said she was bored in class. We wouldn’t allow her to return to school for the winter term, except to clean out her room.

Back at home, she called her dad in Arizona and arranged to move there to live with him. She could not live with such “unreasonable” people as us. She wouln’t accept the fact that the three of us had made an agreement. I claimed that it was a good agreement 6 months ago, and it must be honored.

She moved to Arizona, lived with her dad for about a year, got married, and never set foot in a college classroom again. She spent the second term’s college loan on a new car. We got calls for years from a collection agency. We always gave them her current phone no. and address. I don’t know if she ever repaid the loan.

I’d do it again in a minute. A person must learn to accept responsibility for their word and their actions.

I think that all of the disagreement comes because the son is 19 years old. I look at this age and think, well hell, there is nothing wrong with a parent teaching a teernager a lesson. Others look at the fact that he is 19 and say, well hell, that’s old enough to vote and die for your country, so the mother has no busienss supplying a car for her son’s use, let alone taking it away as punishment. I think if the son was 16 most of us would agree with the first stance and if he was 22 years old most of us would agree with the second stance. But for those of us who look at this objectively, 19 is not really an adult and not really a child. 19 is still a teenager. When I say “objective,” what I mean is that I look at this situation in its own context and don’t let my personal experience color my stance. If your only arguement starts with “Well, when I was that age…” then you are saying what is good for you is good for everyone. With my past, I don’t think my life is an example that anyone should follow. I don’t think my life is a shining example of how every teenager should live and be treated. My hope is for something better for today’s young people than the conditions and lackluster achievements of my teenage years. The reality all parents face is that if your 18 year old teenager wants to decline your assistance and go it on his or her own, there is nothing you can do. However, if you are fortunate enough to have an adult teenager who wants the benefit of your wisdom and agrees to your rules, good for you for doing the right thing.

“The reality all parents face is that if your 18 year old teenager wants to decline your assistance and go it on his or her own, there is nothing you can do. However, if you are fortunate enough to have an adult teenager who wants the benefit of your wisdom and agrees to your rules, good for you for doing the right thing.”

I partially agree, I think the parent who publicly sold the car is most likely to end up in the first category (probably for the best).

However, I don’t understand why having an 18 year old who “agrees to your rules” is a good thing. I would much rather have an 18 year old who no longer needs/wants “my rules,” regardless of where they live or if I’m supporting him/her. Someone (I don’t remember who) said that we are not raising children, we are raising adults.

My goal is to have my kids become more independent than I was at that age (and I was pretty independent). I won’t have a problem with my kids if they choose to move away at 18, and if they decide they want “the benefit of my wisdom,” they will still get it with no strings attached. I would be very concerned if my kids were not anxious to be on their own by that age. By the time they finish college they will probably have to decide what part of the world they are going to live in (literally), I really hope they have some experience living a few 100 miles from “home” before they have to go deal with the rest of the world. I certainly don’t want my kids to limit their futures because their “comfort zone” is limited to being near mom and dad.

These days, I have the opportunity to work with some very bright 20-something professionals, the most impressive of these folks are almost never the ones who were “well behaved” kids. The ones who kick the most ass are fully capable of competing with some very bright 40-somethings. These are not people who are good at following rules, these are people who will push the envelope until their boss threatens to fire them, for the forth time. They will have the boss’s job before too long (or they will get fired and go start their own company). These are the type of people who accomplish things; a healthy lack of respect for “authority,” and plenty of skill and self-confidence to back it up. It took me a long time to learn that for myself when I was that age. That is the kind of adult I would like to see my kids turn into.

I guess you simply value headstrong teenagers more than I do. I look for a balance of assertiveness and wisdom. I want young people to have a choice of whether or not to work in teams. If they want to strike out on their own, great. If they want to work for an organization or company, I would fret if their headstrong nature prevented that. I see value in a healthy lack of BLIND trust of authority, but some authority figures are worthy of respect, and I am thankful that I am not too stubborn to recognize when that is the case. Authority, when wielded by good talented people, isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I think young people should QUESTION authority, especially when it is wielded by someone who is incompetent, not simply reject it in all circumstances. That lack of respect for all authority can limit your future.

There is some truth to that, but I suspect my definition of “assertiveness” is a little stronger than yours. I do believe that some authority figures are worthy of respect, but they have to earn that respect first; it is not automatic. I hope I’ve taught my kids not to automatically defer to “authority figures.” There are no shortage of bosses, teachers, parents, churches, governments, police and other self appointed “authorities” that believe they are automatically entitled to “respect,” I don’t think so.

I also hope my kids understand that working for other people is usually a waste of time and effort in the long term. In some fields you do have to start out working for someone else, but it is normally a good plan to escape as soon as you get what you need from them (experience, contacts, money, whatever). Unfortunately, I was in my 30s before I finally figured out I was wasting my time by working for other people (I’m a little slow sometimes).