Well, as a Jeep owner for 14 years, I really wasn’t familiar with the death wobble issue–which implies that a lot of others probably aren’t either. Over the years I’ve followed Jeep discussion boards, watched Jeep videos on Youtube, etc. etc., and never came across it until seeing the news piece that Mark posted here. That said, everybody knows that Jeeps are crude and unrefined, have a terrible ride, poor heater, noisy top, etc. etc., but it never stops people from buying them–after all, you know what you’re getting into, and if you want a Jeep, you want a Jeep, period. To that end, I love the stiff ride, and I like driving a body-on-frame, oldschool part time 4x4 system with solid axles, and a tried and true engine (however inefficient). It’s simplistic, easy and cheap to maintain, and amazingly versatile despite its limitations. As you probably know, Jeeps tend to hold a decent value, but perhaps you’ll come across a disgruntled owner and you can get a good deal. I ought to defer to Mark and the others who have much more experience than a shadetree such as I with a Jeep as a personal vehicle, but OEM parts have been good enough for me for 200k miles and counting.
Personally, I like Jeep. I like the brand, how rugged and simple they are, and what they can be made into. Many of them I would not want to drive every day or take on a long road trip, but I do like them for the same reason many other people like them, which is why it sort of boggles my mind that the one lady in that video pretty much stated that her JK Unlimited is her “mommymobile”. It’s a purpose built vehicle, but I don’t think that’s the purpose they had in mind. My brother, on the other hand, eats, sleeps, and breathes Jeep and is currently building an XJ that will be a part time trail rig and full time daily driver. I believe his plans will end with 4 1/2 inches of lift and 33" tires.
Jeeps get a bad wrap on a lot of these issues for reasons that have nothing to do with their design…they ( models we are talking about) were designed to be used of road, carry loads and be durable under that use. Start driving them fast over the road with speed limits as high as they are, you give engineers lots of problems. Solid axles are the simplistic way of accomplishing a lot of things, but as the public wants more and more multiuser vehicles, you will begin to see fewer and fewer solid axle designs…but at the expense of a lot of other advantages.
I shake my head watching a Wrangler passing me at 85 mph loaded with kids. They would be much safer driving cross country to their destination through the woods at times, doing what it was intended.
Speaking of idiot moves. While driving home from the kiddy house visit on I-95, I follow a truck with a light utility trailer carrying a refrigerator with the entire load behind the axle in the back tied to the ramp. Stop baggering Jeep and start baggering people for doing idiot things with their vehicles. I immediately jumped it up to 80 and made as much distance as I could between me and this joker, now in my rear view mirror.
Disclaimer: I am not, nor every have been, a Wrangler owner. I’ve driven Cherokees for work, but that’s pretty much the extent of my Jeep experience.
Now, my opinion: I’ve yet to see anywhere the technical cause of the “death wobble”. I know it exists, I’ve been told so by friends who own such vehicles. But why? Is it a combination of caster angle and wheel offset? Relationship between track (width) and wheelbase?
Clearly stability systems have been created to deal with the condition, and if they wear out the wobble happens, but why is the condition happening? Anybody have any answers?
I guess what I’m really wondering is whether it’s really a design issue (Jeep’s fault) or not. I should add that lack of the condition on most small Jeeps does not in itself mean it isn;t design related. A working compensation for a wobble that’s actuallly caused by wheel offset and/or caster angle does not in my mind constitute lack fo a design problem. Perhaps too it’s caused by an optional wheel & tire package?
Excessive wear/slop in the track bar socket that connects to the subframe is the main cause of the so-called “death wobble”. The track bar connects the drag link to the subframe to support it and the tie rod ends so the steering system as a whole can function and remain high out of the way. When that joint gets loose, both the wheels can wobble back and forth as a unit, as observed in the videos shot from outside the vehicle, sort of like play in a Pitman arm or idler arm. The near vertical caster angle that comes with a solid axle certainly doesn’t help and can, in some cases, cause that oscillation seen in the videos. Like I said before, independent front suspension would completely eliminate this problem, but then it wouldn’t be a Jeep, wouldn’t be as capable off-road, and the Jeep enthusiasts would be up in arms over them straying from tradition. That is something they will not do, and something I for one would not want them to do. I think if people realized the nature of what they were buying and mechanics knew what to look for on these things (and people would fix it), this would not be in the news. Heck, if the dealership technicians knew how to diagnose and repair these steering systems, it wouldn’t have ended up in the news because they would have properly diagnosed and repaired that news anchor’s JK rather than blowing him off, pissing him off, and having to deal with this story being put together.
CCCommander35 wrote:
Well, as a Jeep owner for 14 years, I really wasn’t familiar with the death wobble issue–which implies that a lot of others probably aren’t either. Over the years I’ve followed Jeep discussion boards, watched Jeep videos on Youtube, etc. etc., and never came across it until seeing the news piece that Mark posted here.
Back when I had a 1997 Grand Cherokee, I had never heard of it either, until it actually happened to me. It’s quite violent and sudden when it happens.
Thanks for the response Mark.
I agree that people need to understand what they’re buying, but of the other hand Jeep cannot be excused for not understanding that their vehicles will be used on modern highways. I’m disinclined to let Jeep off the hook quite so easily. The death wobble is a known phenominon for jacked up vehicles with oversized tires, and that’s just part of the game of modifying vehicles, but if it’s truely a common problem in stock Jeeps perhaps we should not go so easy on them.
In looking at some of these drawings, it appears that the front axle uses U-joints rather than CV joints in a highly asymetrically designed driven axle. U joints do not transfer power smoothly, but rather in a wave. Those factors, combined possibly with an upright caster angle, I wonder of they combine to create the tendency to shake.
http://www.jeep4x4center.com/jeep-axle-differential-parts/dana30-front-wrangler-yj.htm
At this point, I’m inclined to wonder if a long-obsolete design from WWII is the root cause of the shakes.
“The death wobble is a known phenominon for jacked up vehicles with oversized tires, and that’s just part of the game of modifying vehicles…”
I’m not inclined to get down on a manufacturer if owners modify the vehicle, even if it has gone on for a long time.
A large part of the problem, as has been suggested in the past few posts, is that people buy utility and 4x4 vehicles to look cool, and have no concept of what a truck based 4x4 should feel like or how it handles. The perfect example is the woman who was interviewed in the news piece who bought her Jeep to haul her kid to school. Really…REALLY? Does your highway commuter really need to traverse the Rubicon Trail unmodified?
The success of the JK Wrangler is, in a lot of ways, the perfect response (from a marketing standpoint) to this issue. Yes, they’ve kept to their roots with the solid front axle (thankfully so), but they’ve made the JK appeal to a whole new generation of buyers who likely thought the older Wranglers and CJs were too barbaric. I’ve thought for years that Jeep needs to go in two directions: make the Wrangler a car-based vehicle like the Patriot, so people can still look cool driving to the mall, and bring back the “CJ” name and make it a more dedicated vehicle. It could basically be a platform for building a rugged trail rig that many Wrangler owners want. Give it just enough technology to get past the NHTSA, but skip all the froufrou stuff that’s trickling down to the Wrangler. To this same effect, the XJ Cherokee is, in my opinion, the best SUV of all time. Basic, straightforward, and capable.
Looks like at least one Ford owner has death wobble too…
Yep. Anything with a solid front axle is particularly susceptible to it. First time I experienced it was in a late '90s Ram 2500 4X4.