Lets go over the cliff

General Discussion
201

So it’s cool to diss Obama Care cause why ? The CBO agrees it cuts the deficit ? You can’t be denied coverage for preexisting conditions ? It limits the amount insurance companies can take for profit to less then 20% of your premium ? Keeps some if our kids on our plan to 26 ? Helps get 30000 a reasonable healthcare plan who have no coverage now.

You can’t be dropped from coverage when you reach your limit ? You guys who are retired hate your Medicare and don’t think it works so you want for profit till you die as Obama care is a link to partial non profit. You think that you should continue paying for persciption drugs without being able to negotiate the price ? You like having Bush’s for profit drug plan to having nearly a trillion every two years contribute to the deficit ?

Don’t like that small businesses, contrary to what you have heard, can opt out of the employer based system and allow employees to be part of their own consortium ?

Or, is it just cool to complain when majority of bankrupcies are for med expenses for the uninsured and thousands die each year for lack of insurance ? Or, maybe you have a better idea and want to keep it to yourself ? The complainers complain but offer nothing better then, let’m die ?

So, you continue voting for those who would ditch Obama care, cut SS and Medicare benefits even though none contributes to our deficit while SS has been paying down the deficit since it’s near inception. When you get some time, please look here !
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/fundFAQ.html

202

I have a formula for cutting spending that I think will work. It starts with looking at what is behind the explosion in government spending and that is government employees, those in management positions. Now they are not evil people who are out to increase government spending, in fact most are very conservative people who would like to see government spending reduced.

But here is the problem, they would all like to get the next promotion, just like people in the corporate world. In government, unlike the corporate world, most advancements are controlled by a committee set up in Washington. They are not controlled at a local level. Your ticket to advancement is your annual evaluation.

Now these committee’s have to make selections based only on reading the evaluations before them. To get noticed, your evaluation has to stand out from all the rest. The thing that gets the most notice is the size of your budget. The next biggest thing is the number of people you manage.

These two things are put in bullet form so they get noticed. Any significant accomplishments are also bulletized below them, but having too many accomplishments works against you. If your evaluation gets too long, it gets ignored as the committee members only have a short period of time to make their selections.

So the problem is that we have a government full of dedicated, conservative employees who would like to see spending cut, except in their department. Their department needs a larger budget in order to accomplish the good and important work they do.

So the formula is simple, any evaluation that has a mention of the size of their budget or number of people under their command will not be eligible for promotion. Bullets on money saved in their budget would be allowed and be given top priority. saving money from someone else’s budget would also be a good point, but not count quite as much.

I think this step would result in a first year savings of about 20%.

The next step is for the government accounting office to figure out how to put that money back into the US Treasury, something they don’t seem to know how to do.

203

The new gospel of the far right…

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204

It’s hard not to look at Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and DoD. Almost all US Government outlays go to these. The only other major expenditure is Treasury, and that is for debt service. Any serious reduction in the national debt must include these.

I have paid for my parent’s and grandparent’s generation’s medicare and social security all my working life. I have paid for my own retirement for more than 30 years through 401K and 403B contributions - no defined benefits after the first 8 years. Young people that feel shortchanged should consider that they are not even close to the first to pay the full load as I have done. I suggest that they get over it and do their part for society, as I have done and continue to do.

The national debt has grown dramatically since the early 1980s, with only a short respite in the late 1990s. It is not nearly what it was during and after WWII as a percentage of GDP, and that is heartening. This also means that increasing the debt ceiling is not as large an issue as you might think.

During 2012, $2165 billion went to social security, medicare and DoD. $225 billion went to debt service. The total was $2390 of the full $3795 outlay. That leaves $1405 billion for everything else. As it turns out, the revenue shortfall was $1375 billion. That medicare, social security, and DoD are such large parts of our expenditures means that they must be included. IMO, no serious debt reduction discussions can ignore them.

205

@jtsanders
The difference jt, is that SS and Medicare do not come out of the general fund from the income tax you pay. They are a payroll tax supported program and adjustments are made yearly to keep them solvent. A non arguement !
They contribute nothing to the debt, and it’s a complete fallacy that they do…please read the trust fund data !

206

If a family bread winner lost his job $60,000 job and worked at multiple minimum wage jobs while looking for something better would he be wise to borrow money and attempt to relocate in an area where jobs were more plentiful or just keep within his budget and wait to be evicted? This country would be quite stupid to allow millions to become homeless and hungry and despite the hard core right wings blustering and bantering to their “I’ve got mine” constituencies they realize that a repeat of the Great Depression would quickly result in civil unrest far beyond the OWS level. But Ryan, Boehner, et al, will continue to strut their hard core cause to the puiblic but vote to ensure that the cerfs are not manning the barricades.

207

I’m not averse to an indepth review of the military budget for waste…but not until we stop funding hostile countries, oil companies, agricultural conglomerates, donkey museums, bovine flatualance studies, and all that other silliness that gets voted to approve in order for members of congress to bring money into their districts al all costs…in truth to buy votes.

208

But why must YOUR bacon be saved until you are satisfied that the opposition’s is totally cut out to YOUR SATISFACTION? You realize that your opposition can demand the same consideration and that leaves US in deadlock. But of course that’s just the situation we are in, isn’t it.

209
.but not until we stop funding hostile countries, oil companies, agricultural conglomerates, donkey museums, bovine flatualance studies, and all that other silliness that gets voted to approve in order for members of congress to bring money into their districts al all costs.....in truth to buy votes.

The pork barrel (earmarks) in these bills is the biggest problem there is. When Reagan was president he reluctantly signed a bill which he proclaimed had the largest pork barrel projects in the history of the US (and he was right). When Clinton was president with the republican controled house…the pork barrel spending was over 1000 times the port barrel spending in bill Reagan signed. And it keeps going up.

It’s been happening in this country since it was founded. I don’t see how it’s going to stop. It’s a way of bribing congress to vote for a bill they may or may not want.

210

Because, Rod, we’re talking about MY money being wasted! And MY benefits being cut!

You apparently prefer to cut the military budget before cutting expendatures for donkey museums, hostile coutries, bridges to nowhere, and studies of bovine flatulance, but alll I can say is I disagree. We all have our priorities.

211

Well, every dime spent to study bovine flatulance is a dime that can’t be spent on DoD palaces in the middle east, TSM.

212

As a new social security recipient (retired), I was quite shocked on my visits to the SS office to see all these healthy looking young people in the waiting area. Now a few were there to get a SS card for their new baby, but a lot were on SSI. Even more shocking was a young lady telling me that she signed up for her SSI benefits at her local welfare office,

It seems that the government has found a new way to reduce the welfare budget, put them on SSI. Needless to say, I get just a little angry when I see an ad for a law firm that specializes in “getting you your benefits if social security denies your claim”. Often these are the same law firms that will get you out of the past due income tax you owe.

I think the social security benefit can be cut without cutting benefits to those you have paid into the system, but we have to start with the lawyers first. Wasn’t the job of the bar association to weed out the sleezy lawyers?

213

These Problems Have A Way Of Taking Care Of Themselves. I Guess The Government Will Keep Up The Wasteful Deficit Spending, Taxing, And Running Us Deeper In Debt Until We Wreck. That Will End The Wasteful Spending And Entitlements.

I don’t wish to do it that way, but it appears that’s the only solution and it’s coming to a neighborhood near you. I’m planning accordingly.

CSA

214

Whose money was spent here?

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0210-10.htm

The “War against Terror” was a funnel to pour cash into the pockets of GOP politicians, their families and their corporate friends.

215

Social Security has an accrude surplus of 2.7 trillion dollars
@keith…why the heck are you even talking about cutting SS benefits ?

Does that sound like it is contributing to the deficit. These funds have been robbed to pay down the deficit in the general finds. You guys are duped into thinking that cuting benefits to Social Security and other social programs will lower the deficit.

Look at the history, the true history and you will find that electing progressives to congress is the only way to reduce the deficit over time. The reason is simple. NO ONE cuts spending but Progressives encourage spending at home which has a stimulus effect and pay for it. Conservatives never cut spending but shift it to military and subsidies much of which ends up,abroad. Instead of drinking FOX cool aid, study some actual history. Look at Ryan’s budget which even he can’t explain and look at the deficits accrude in every administration since WW2, if you dare.

Obama has added 1.7 trillion to Our deficit, which is down significantly from Bush who added 5.5 Trillion. Typical of the difference !

216

Guess everyone likes to look at Modern Marvels and all those cool military weapons
It’s military spending that comes out of the general fund which contributes most to the deficit. We have a false sense of that because Bush didn’t even put two wars on the budget, that now appears in Obama’s budget. Suddenly, everyone is an expert on how to cut the deficit. Many of you in cutting social programs which pay for themselves, are looking in the wrong place.

Btw, the Medicare trust fund is solvent to 2024. Does that sound like it’s contributing to he deficit ?

217

" Social Security has an accrude surplus of 2.7 trillion dollars “
” These funds have been robbed to pay down the deficit in the general finds. "

Which is it, a fund of $2.7T or a fund that had $2.7T before being robbed ?
That money’s not going to be put back.

" Also, " Obama has added 1.7 trillion to Our deficit . . . "
That’s per year for 4 years and going for 5, 6, 7, and 8 !

" Mr. Obama doesn’t mention the National Debt much, though he does want to be seen trying to reduce the annual budget deficit, though it’s topped a trillion dollars for four years now." CBS NEWS


I used a liberal news outfit so I wouldn’t get accused of Foxism, which is impossible because I can’t watch/listen to FOX.

Here we go with the witty “FOX coolaid.” Instead of blaming everybody else for the dire condition of the U.S. economy and fiscal health, people need to accept some responsibility and being willing to work at fixing it and that goes for all personnel in congress and the White House or nothing will be accomplished, but the blame game.

It’s water over the dam now, whatever spending put us in this mess. There’s plenty of blame and shirked resposibility to go around, everywhere. It’s counter productive. Rather than look back, everybody needs to look forward.

Michigan got a Governor that took over a state in dire economic condition. When asked about what he inherited from the forer governor, he indicated that he doesn’t want to blame anybody, it wouldn’t change anything, had no rear-view mirror, only forward vision, and then proceeded to get the house in order. That’s leadership.

CSA

218

Been to war. My son’s been to war. Neither of us has ever seen a DoD palace. But of there WAS one, I’d rather the money go toward that than bovine flatulance.

219

" Btw, the Medicare trust fund is solvent to 2024. Does that sound like it’s contributing to he deficit ? "

Going, going . . .

" The trustees’ report found that the poor economy has shortened the life span of the Medicare trust fund by five years. Without the healthcare reform law, the report says, the trust fund would go broke eight years sooner, in 2016. "

The medicare solvency is in a death spiral. Every time it’s revised it gets worse unless intervention takes place. It’s getting worse at a faster rate, exacerbated by a very poor economy, and not enough tax payers. It willl soon be revised down to a year out and then to broke.

CSA

220

Medicare death spiral…;=) I’m so afraid !

The poor economy caused by lack of internal investment and loss of funds abroad through unfunded wars HAS has contracted Medicare solvency down to 2024. So my question still is…why are we blaming SS and Medicare for the present deficit. You have given all your fear mongering points from FOX. These same points of fear are ALWAYS alayed by the Interrnal Revenue, who, without legislation, has automatically adjusted SS FICA contributions from 80000 to 100k salery levels by using cost of living adjustments. Such modest adjust ments if allowed, extends its solvency out to 75 years ! THAT’s the reality ! And, the same can be done for Medicare…temporarily while actually…

The REAL cost is medical procedures and drugs. The conservatives got their nearly one trillion in free drug benefits to drug companies…a huge contributor to our debt. Yet, I have yet to hear you rail agaisnt that.

Medicare pays back 2.5 dollars or every 2 dollars it takes in, is still solvent and your conservative solution is to privatize it. I’m sure the payback will be a heck of a lot worse, our deficit will go up, and states will go completely bankrupt trying to fund their poor with outrages conservative practice private insurance payouts. Obama care is needed for that reason alone…

Medicare for all is the solution for containing health care cost. The single payer then has a stronger hand in determining the actual cost of healthcare.

And no, I will not blame everyone for the present conditions…George Bush alone is responsible for Initiating, the deficit creating practices, including wars, tax cuts, pork, unregulated bank practices and unlimited spending.

Bush saddle the next administration with escalating war expenditures and a tax reduction package that we have only just begun to address. Bush policies are responsible for 8 trillion dollars of accumulated deficits over ten years after he left office by the most conservative estimates.