Going a little off-topic here, but $700 doesn’t get you very much in the way of car repair anymore these days, and it doesn’t take much to get to that $700 figure.
Recent cars in the shop:
2002 Mercury Mountaineer. In for oil change, ABS light on, and humming noise from rear. Oil service with a new air filter, a tire patch, a RF wheel speed sensor, and a left rear wheel bearing/hub repair kit. $740.00
1997(?) Honda Accord. Major oil leak from front of engine, leaking oil seal resulting in timing belts/oil seal replacement. Replaced water pump proactively. About $700.00
2003(?) Nissan Pathfinder. Oil leak at valve cover gaskets and front brake pad service and rear brakes with shoes and cylinders. $820.00
I don’t see anything out of the ordinary about these services, the cars were not driven particularly hard or abused. Just normal wear and tear. I really question how people here can get to 300,000 miles on a car without a “breakdown.” You’d have to be really lucky to get to 300,000 miles without spending some serious change on your car.
I’ve driven my current ride ~35k mi, and the only “$500 repair” (actually maintenance) was four tires. (That’s about as far as you’re allowed to drive over three years, though I’ve only had it for 1.5).
Notable repairs (note that I’m not saying a 20 y.o. truck is trouble free):
Replaced alternator: $0 (stripped the accessories off the prior truck before scrapping)
Clutch slave: $200 (slave, new clutch kit, plus $80 to my step-son for helping)…mice love Ford hydraulic lines!?
Rear window (scrapping mishap): $100
Vent window (locked keys): $40 (cheaper than locksmith)
Exhaust work: $50 (+barter with welder)
Passenger mirror: $12
Interior door handles ripped out of sheet metal: $4 (fender washers, nuts+ bolts)
On this forum reside a whole lot of folks that can work on cars, and thus make particularly good candidates for “buy n hold.”
Note that my truck is hardly the poster child for trouble free operations (but reliable, operable 499 of 500 days.) Also note MOST of the trouble is as a direct and proximate result of me being a dumb donkey: two windows, even the clutch slave was from parking in a field for a week. That stuff could happen to any car! (operated by me…)
For a mechanically-inclined individual (present company), who elects to buy mechanically simple vehicle, you have to have a head gasket, or worse, before it costs >$500. That doesn’t happen annualy!
True, I see problem cars, but I do as much routine maintenance as repairs. I see brakes, belts, tires, scheduled maintenance as maintenance and not breakdowns. But the examples I gave weren’t “problem” cars, just things that need attention from time to time. No matter how vigilant you are about maintenance there will be repairs. There’s no preventive maintenance for window regulators or wheel bearings or slave cylinders. They work until they don’t. And when they don’t you have to pay me to fix it or do it yourself.
I also agree that the population in this forum isn’t representative of the general driving public. You should see some of the craziness that walks in the door.
If the OP wants to lease then have at it. To me personally, it makes no sense to shell out X amount per mile just for the pleasure of driving a new car under mileage constraints with payments until infinity…
Most of my cars see 300k miles and more (one was 420k) and the expense to keep them going is actually small if the basic maintenance and wear items such as oil changes, tires, brakes, etc are removed from the list. Preventive maintenance and driving habits is what I attribute the longevity to.
If someone is having to spend 500 or a thousand dollars every few months to keep their car going then they’re either flogging it into the pavement or they bought a POS which someone else flogged into the pavement.
Why do you destroy any credibility with such BS statements?
What credibility???
Based on what Joe shows…$7700 for 36k miles. Based on my experience and many others in this conference…The total cost for you after 300k miles would be OVER $64,000.
I bought my 98 Pathfinder for $27k. Over the years for maintenance I put in LESS then $5k. And that $5k is very very generous.
So my total over 300k miles is about $32k.
$64k - $32k = $32,000 SAVINGS OVER 300K miles. And I’m NOT even comparing the same vehicle…
They don’t even make the Chevy Cavalier anymore. It’s been more than a decade since that car was discontinued. Why would you compare an old discontinued car to a new car lease? Talk about apples and oranges!
By ignoring the down payment I can come up with a $50/month lease. Heck, make the down big enough and the lease is FREE (no monthly payment). Those do exist, you just pay all the depreciation, interest, and profit to the leasing company on day 1.
Has nothing to do with whether a lease is a good idea, of course.
@JoMario wrote: “… That works out to $0.215/mile. …”
Using your given data, buying the car outright the cost per mile drops to $0.215 at 92k miles.
At that point you are ahead of the lease by the resale value; and any decent modern car well cared for can make it to 92k without a major repair.
In the final analysis it boils down to cost per month for the customer. Leasing tempts the user to get the most car for his monthly payment, not realizing that these payments will go on forever.
Finance companies used to sell luxury cars, like used Cadillacs, to low income buyers with very low down payment, low monthly payments but with a large “balloon payment” at the end. This balloon payment usually equalled the value of the car, so the “owner” who could seldom afford it ended up essentially leasing the vehicle at a very high cost.
More: if that owned car suddenly needs $700/year in repairs after 92k miles and is driven 12,000 miles/year
that works out to $0.0583/mile, much lower than the lease rate of $0.215/mile.
If they had a $99/month lease, it’d probably be for the barebones model that no one wants. I’d rather spend a bit more money and get something worth having/driving.
Also, you don’t lease a Civic or Corolla, you lease a BMW or Mercedes or Porsche.
I’ve toyed with the leasing thing myself, but don’t feel like having the continuous payments or hassle of trying to find a new car every 2 or 3 years. Plus, I don’t think there’s really any car out there that compares to my CX-7 right now
One final note to this debate. Since 1972 we have been a 2 car family and I have spent $62,950 net total on the purchase of several used and two new cars. That works out to $31,475 per car over 41 years or $768 per car per year or $64 per month all in cost. And we still have our 2007 and 2012 vehicles, all paid for.
Not that I think leasing is cheaper, but your calculation has to be inflation adjusted (41 yrs!), and also needs adjustment for possible investment opportunity and others. But I have to congratulate you on actually knowing what you have spent over 41 years. Most people I know, are not aware how much they are paying for gas each month.
I go back to @MikeInNh comments.
If you aren’t in the habit of buying reliable cars and keeping up with the small routine maintenance…perhaps. But, I have had a total of one battery, 5 pairs of tires, a warranty paid repair, 4 per axle brake jobs and routine maintenance on two cars over the last nine years. They are both totally rust free and in excellent shape body wise while being mechanically sound as two 100k plus cars can be. Tell me I would have saved by leasing. Of course, they are Toyotas and not Chrysler Sebrings. I don’t hold up Toyotas as my bro. saved equally with his Ford trucks. So, the gazintas are in my favor. Of course, some of us aren’t into owning newer cars all the time. The only thing I miss, is an mp3 USB port. Have to wait five more years or that.
The idea that leasing is actually cheaper than owning has no basis in reality. The only way to make the math work is to treat maintenance and repairs as though they are the same thing. You also have to assume you don’t pay for maintenance on a leased vehicle, and this still only comes close to making sense if you lease/buy the least reliable new vehicles you can find.
Today’s new vehicles are so reliable and dependable that I don’t know anyone who has had to repair a new car in the first year of ownership. Even Ford, GM, and Hyundai/Kia have improved reliability to such a degree that you don’t have to buy an expensive Honda or Toyota anymore to get a good reliable long-lasting vehicle. You’d have to go out of your way to spend more money on a luxury vehicle to find something that is so unreliable that you would rather lease it than own it, and at that point, you’ve decided on a car based on criteria other than reliability. People like that probably need a luxury car to boost their low self-esteem. Therapy would be more effective and less costly, but if leasing an unreliable luxury vehicle makes you feel better about yourself, go for it. Just don’t try to tell me that giving up my reliable 1998 Honda Civic in favor of a leased vehicle is going to save me money. That’s a pure unmitigated load of crap.
I assume you’re waiting to buy new when your current ride wears out but here’s another perspective-
One of my friends was at the dealership peering into the windows of a brand new pickemup when several of the salespeople descended upon him anxious to land a big sale. One was quickest on the draw- can I help you?
His response- nah, I’m just looking at the truck I’m going to buy in 5 years. They slinked away back into the shadows without saying a word…
That’s a funny story, @TwinTurbo. I just can’t get over the belief that pickup truck owners seem to be the kind of folks who think oil changes aren’t necessary. I realize not all pickup owners abuse and neglect their vehicles, but I’ve always thought that if you know someone who abuses and neglects his vehicle, odds are he drives a pickup truck. Am I wrong about this? Would you buy a used truck? I’d be willing to consider a used passenger car or a used commercial truck, but if I was buying a layman’s pickup truck, I’d probably opt for a new one.
@Whitey:
Gotta disagree with you there. I think the typical truck owner is mechanically-inclined, and will at least “redneck-repair” the truck, as it needs it, rather than neglect it until it has to be tossed.
For example: both p/u trucks, and many cars, rust out the rear wheel wells. Seems to me that almost invariably the cars are left to rot…while plenty of trucks at least get the “sheet metal and pop rivet” cure.
From a selfish perspective, do you really think a guy struggling to hold on to a working-class existence as a landscaper or handyman would neglect his moneymaker? [Looking in the mirror as I type this.]
Also, gas hogs are CHEAP in the marketplace. I bought my truck–18 y.o. with 122k–for $2700, and I know I overpayed. If your needs require a truck, it’s a buyer’s marmetplace! [sic]
(Now, if you were referring to heavily-optioned “poseurmobiles” of the “all hat, no cattle” set, perhaps you’re right…but the workingman’s truck seems the most likely to receive periodic maintenance.)
What I worry about are the hackish redneck repairs that are unsafe, like welded frame members, coil spring spacers, and broken steering linkage that is held together with a screw and an old wire hanger. Far too many of the pickup truck owners I know are mechanically inclined but have poor judgment, which is a dangerous combination.
Pickup trucks are some of the last consumer vehicles that have a body-on-frame design. If the body of your car with unibody construction starts to rust, what is rusting is probably a weight-bearing frame member. If anyone tried the “‘sheet metal and pop rivet’ cure” on any metal part of a car’s body, it would be unsafe.