It is almost impossible to get pulled over where I live

General Discussion
81

If someone is speeding and gets a ticket then I don’t have a problem with it. I’ve gotten a few tickets that I fully deserved and paid them without question.
However, I’ve also gotten jacked up a number of times for no reason at all. Just try and prove that a cop is lying about how fast you were actually going or whatever else is being claimed…

In one small city about 50 miles south of me I was stopped 3 times there at night and each time I had made it a point to go about 5 MPH under the posted speed. Twice I let it go. The third time I was steamed and went to court a few weeks later.
The officer didn’t even show up and no city copy of the ticket was present. The judge also told me to my face that (an almost verbatim quote) “The officer probably no reason to stop you in the first place. He getting on in years, lived here forever, just didn’t know who you were, and didn’t like your looks. Hxxx, I’m ex-Air Force and I don’t like your looks or your attitude”.

My response, before the judge found me guilty anyway, was that my attitude was fine when I walked into the courtroom and that it only soured when he opened his mouth.

82

@dagosa, I find your full faith in our “boys in blue” rather refreshingly naive.

You cannot know the economics and politics of each and every town you drive though; hence you cannot know that ALL jurisdictions eschew money making off traffic fines. (I know from family that VA had a prevalent “get yankee” M.O. at least through the '70s…best behave yourself with PA plates :wink:

My experience with a speed trap (and YES I name names, Cuba NM) is a road drops from 55 to 35 rounding a bend. No “reduced speed ahead” signs either.

I see the sign…see the city (such as it was) began 1/2 mile hence…and I get off the gas and bleed my speed down from 60 to 40. The second my (decelerating!) car cleared the 35 sign, the lights go on, clocking me at apparently 52. Protests to no avail.

20 MPH drop, no advanced notice, ticketing a slowing vehicle…to paraphrase David Allen Coe, “If that ain’t a speed trap…”

83

Not too many kids on bikes going to school or elderly folks walking to the grocery store out on the rural highways of Minnesota. Maybe meet a car every 5 minutes or more. 55 seems a little silly is all and not a safety issue. Unless of course to be even safer, why not make the limit 35 instead of 55? Try covering a state 300 x 600 miles at 55 mph some time.

84

I will concede that efforts for the sake of generating revenue, like when they install a red light camera and then shorten the yellow part of the light’s cycle, are clear blatant abuses. The purpose of enforcement, and the purpose of red light cameras, should be to make the roads safe, not increase revenue. In fact, if a red light camera does its job properly, it should generate almost no revenue.

In cases, like in Hollywood, FL ( http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-07-04/news/fl-hollywood-budget-errors-20110705_1_budget-projections-budget-director-municipal-budget ), where red light cameras aren’t generating their expected revenue, the local government should consider the cameras a success. The fact that they consider them a failure because of the lack of revenue is very telling. However, having said that, how can you parse whether you got a ticket for running a stop sign or for speeding when you actually did run a stop sign or speed? If you drove past a 35 MPH sign going faster than 35 MPH, why is that the police officer’s fault? Maybe the cop who pulled you over thinks he is making the roads safer. You can’t really get into his head unless he makes it obvious.

85

“Generally unmarkeds are easily ID’d by vehicle type, plate designation, presence of antennae, etc.”

Generally, that is true, but relying on those factors could still wind up getting you into trouble.
For example, back when I was a kid, the county police confiscated a bright yellow 1960 Ford Galaxie convertible from a criminal of some sort. For a year or so after the county cops acquired that car, just imagine the look of surprise on the faces of the drivers who were pulled over by that car.

And, at one time, the NJ State Police began using Thunderbirds for speed enforcement on the NJ Turnpike. Since the “standard” patrol cars on the Turnpike at that time were Chrysler New Yorker six-window sedans, it was very easy for the Troopers in unmarked T-Birds to pace other cars w/o being noticed.

86

@acemaster
I get what you are saying…and the same thing over again. Just put up a front, don’t hide and just let the threat of being caught be a deterrent. Just like parenting, that is never sufficient. The biggest deterrent to speeding, or committing any offense, is NOT the threat of getting caught, it’s the Assuredness of getting caught. Fines are NOT money makers that some how the town gets rich on some unsuspecting speeder. They are bill payers for both the court system ( the major expense) and the execution of the enforcement. And a constant reminder, the police do not make the laws, put up the stop signs nor pave the roads. They do what they are told.

If corruption exists in a police force, it starts with the govt. that highers them, local , county or state. Federal funds for training are passed to locals and training through the state police who received theirs from the FBI, is available to ever police force. So, if staging speed traps is such an unlawful and deceitful practice that never works to deter speeding, then evryone is wrong and you are right. It’s just a way of what, making a buck ? In all the town govts around here that I am aware of, speed monitoring and enforcemnt including your speed traps, is done at the request of the tax payers through their representatives, and it isn’t just to make a buck. It’s done because some one thinks it works and the training they receive reinforces it’s use.

One thing I am confident in is this. If the speeders who have gotten tickets were never stopped or fined, they would be violating more then they presently do and roads would be less safe. If they felt the radar detector they have in their cars were not needed to prevent them being pulled over and summoned, they would continue speeding and never slow down. The fake police car on the side of the road only works if the speeder truly believes a stop and a summons will be executed if he does not slow down.

It’s the assuredness of getting caught that is the deterrent !

87

Those unmanned police cars only work as a deterrent if they are moved frequently. When my town first started doing this about 8 years ago, I wondered why the car was always parked in the exact same position, in the exact same field, and why the cop always faced forward without ever turning his head.

Finally, I realized that they had placed a dummy of some sort in the driver’s seat, in order to try to make the ruse more effective. It probably did fool people for the first few days, but after about 5 days, the locals figured it out, and when a new police chief was hired, this experiment came to an end.

88

@Whitey: The “trap” was set by whoever decided to precipitously drop the PSL 20 MPH in a manner that makes it impossible to comply without fairly abrupt maneuvering. Then the trap was sprung by the cop. After all, I would have been in substantial compliance with the law by the time I actually hit the “city” proper, 1/2 mile beyond, so if the cop was motivated by safety, he easily could have kept tracking me on radar to see if I continued decelerating down to a safe speed.

Also consider this: Cuba, NM, of the late 90’s (and I presume today) is a tiny blip of a town on NM 44, the direct route between Albuquerque and Farmington NM. I could easily see a substantial portion of their revenue coming from targeting travelers between these two cities.

At any event, it’s common knowledge that it takes a fair distance to slow a vehicle 20MPH at highway speeds, and to target a slowing vehicle the split instant one clears the sign is (at the least) penny-ante-ish.

89
90

Wow, @MikeInNH. That story is a perfect example of how local government can’t always be trusted. My Libertarian friends who think all government should be local (because it’s never as corrupt as national government) need to see this.

91

That New Rome story MikeinNH posted would be almost comical if it wasn’t so tragically true.

The cut and paste below is towards the extreme end of the spectrum, but par for the course here. That poor kid had just sat down with grandpa 5 minutes before…

NOBLE, Okla. — Not a single day passes that Jack Haley doesn’t think of his little boy. There are pictures on every wall and a glass case with all his favorite toys.

Six years ago, 5-year old Austin was accidentally shot and killed while fishing with his grandfather at a family pond. Grandfather, Jack Tracy said, “The 2nd bullet hit him in the back of the head and came out here in his forehead. It was horrible. Blood and brains everywhere.”

It was August 3rd, 2007. Two Noble police officers were called to a home on a report of a large snake, dangling from a birdhouse.

Paul Bradley Rogers fired two shots from his 357. The bullets missed the rat snake, but one struck Austin, who was in the woods directly behind the home.

Austin’s dad, Jack said, “I hate to dredge this up again. But here we are six years later, and we’re finding out the shooter, Brad Rogers, his records have been expunged.”

Both officers pleaded “no contest” to second degree involuntary manslaughter. And it’s true. Officer Roger’s record has been cleared, but it was legal under Title 22 Section 991 C.

The Cleveland County DA, Greg Mashburn told us, “providing all requirements were met on the deferred sentence, the case could be updated to say “pled not guilty, case dismissed.”

The family believes the law is outrageous according to Jack Tracy.

“He was shot and killed by the reckless act of another person and they want to sweep the whole thing under the carpet and forget it?” Tracy says.

They say there is no forgetting Austin or the the deadly accident, even if the officers and the court see it differently.

92

I don’t mean to bash the police but after all they work for me and the motto on the door is protect and defend. So I always think what part of protect and defend are they acting on when they are a little harsh and unreasonable.

Like I said before, it was my 50th birthday and we spent the day cleaning up after the wifes uncles auction 200 miles away. It was 10:00 at night, pitch black and 30 miles from home. There is a little town about a mile long where the highway goes through and goes from a 55 to a 30. At the end of the town was a closed gas station, no lights on, and about 300 feet from where 55 resumes. Two police cars parked in the gas station lot. Not another car in sight, no kids, no bikes, no one walking etc. A one horse town totally deserted except for these two 23 year olds. I was cruising through at 45. I’m not saying I didn’t deserve being stopped, or even getting the $135 ticket, it was just their attitude and there ain’t anyone gonna tell me that it was for public safety.

Just silly public relations and adds nothing. I had an office where once or twice a week I needed to pass through that town but instead I would detour around the place and make sure I never stopped there anymore for gas or supplies. I’m all for public safety just not jerk punk young kids who just passed their certification and landed a third shift job in a population 200 town.

About 40 miles down the road the other way is a same sized town. Day and night there is a squad car parked on the main drag. I’ve never yet seen anyone in it and its always there. It has the same effect of slowing traffic down a little as they go through town and doesn’t cost a thing or cause any hard feelings. I stop there for gas once in a while.

Now in Minnesota, state troopers and most county deputies are a whole different matter. Very professional, courteous, and use some common sense.

93

The other problem with local and even state cops…is their Blue Wall.

I know a couple of very good cops. But they REFUSE to rat out any other cops who are bad. In fact they’ll go out of their way defending even criminal acts. They would never do some of the stuff these other cops did…but they still defend them…even when they admit that if I did it - they’d arrest me for it.

94

Very true, and bad behavior even extends into fire departments. One example I can relate and will not provide too much detail on involves an explosion at an oil field company some years ago.
There were 2 employees in the building and they had gotten negligent while working on a gasoline tanker with a torch.
The resulting explosion shredded the building to pieces and killed both men.

As the coroner was hauling off what was left of the bodies after things had been tamped down, guess what most of the firemen were doing? They were all walking around in a 100 yard radius and filling the pockets of their protective coats with tools which had come down like hailstones due to the explosion. Some were even stuffing tools in their boots after their pockets were full.

95

I’m very disappointed about those firemen. As far as I know, fireman is a dangerous, but very well paying career. Many of the firemen in LA county live in EXTREMELY nice areas. I’m disappointed that someone pulling in that kind of money would stoop to stealing.

I have nothing but respect for firemen. However, I believe they should not engage in such petty behavior. I feel they should be role models for the rest of us. Being a thief is not being a good role model.

96

If I were the executor of the estate, I would have sent them a bill.

97

It would never be proven in a court of law though as it would all be denied and the statute of limitations ran out.

The volunteer fire departments especially are plagued with financial misdeeds or dereliction of duty and I could list example after example of that including where I currently live.
The small town south of me had a police chief who was charged with fraud and conspiracy. He bailed for Wyoming after feeling the heat.
The same town canned every one of their volunteer firefighters and shortly afterwards the fire chief and his wife were charged with embezzlement after a state investigation showed they were taking vacations, faking pay, buying Playstations, and so on with taxpayer money. Trials currently pending…

The funniest bad cop incident happened here some years ago when 2 small town cops who were off duty (and not knowing each other) came into the city for some Saturday night partying.
One stopped the other for a failed taillight and threatened him with a ticket even though neither one had jurisdiction and off duty. One took exception to being ticketed (“You can’t ticket me; I’m a cop!” it was reported.) and they started screaming and threatening each other.
The residents there heard the commotion and called the local PD. When the local cops showed up both of those clowns had guns pulled on each other and were threatening each other with arrest…

That would have been a real hoot for a Youtube video… :slight_smile:

98

“The funniest bad cop incident”

Unfortunately, it’s not really funny

It’s pathetic

“You can’t ticket me; I’m a cop!” . . . I guess he thought rules don’t apply to him

There was a similar incident here a few months ago

Two off-duty sheriff’s, and out-of-uniform, deputies pulled guns on each other, because they each didn’t know that the other was a deputy. Apparently, alcohol may have been a factor . . .

99
MikeInNH October 14 http://www.caranddriver.com/features/town-without-pity

Dang it, now you got that song “Town Without Pity” stuck in my head. (the theme song to Peyton Place)

100

Actually I saw an old Hitchcock show the other night where the couple ran into a similar town. Can’t remember the year car they were driving or what state they were in-somewhere out east, but must have been about 1957. Cops drove so slowly that the guy passed him. Then got pulled over for speeding and forced him off the road causing a flat tire. Police called a tow truck to tow it to town and see the judge. I think total repairs were $70 and fine after all said and done under $100. Thing is the guy was from the state AG’s office and got the whole thing on a portable reel to reel tape recorder-as was the original plan.

My son lives not to far from that place and frankly I haven’t been impressed with Ohio compared to Minnesota in the whole government servces area. Seems to me the AG and SOS along with the Gov, could take pretty quick and effective action to put an end to the whole thing.