I think some of the issue with tickets is that they clearly are being used as a revenue source and not to enforce laws or safety. If you want to enforce the speed limit and increase safety, get on the road and drive the speed limit. No one is going to pass a state trooper driving the speed limit, and anyone who does should be cited. On the other hand, hiding at overpasses and embankments with a radar gun smacks of ticket quotas and money-making. At least to me.
I was driving on Loop 1604 in San Antonio, TX a few years ago, and the city was conspiciously parking unmanned cop cars on the side of the road just to get speeders to slow down.
I have long felt that instead of banning radar detectors, authorities should just put so many dummy radar transmitters on the highways making radar detectors cry wolf every other mile or so, and then clock them with a stopwatch from an airplane when they think all is clear.
I’m not in favor of speedtraps, but I also have little sympathy for the people who think they are entitled to speed and treat the traffic that isn’t speeding with them as if they are the ones who are being jerks.
A speedtrap is an entity that collects revenue to exist and exists to collect revenue, giving tickets to safe and responsible drivers who break some minor infraction. There was a town somewhere in north TX that was ticketing everyone who didn’t come to a complete stop at a highway intersection and even people who came to a complete stop but went over the white line before they did. This raised so many complaints that the state finally stepped in and replaced that stop sign with a yield sign.
“I was driving on Loop 1604 in San Antonio, TX a few years ago, and the city was conspiciously parking unmanned cop cars on the side of the road just to get speeders to slow down.”
But why would they do that? They don’t make any money ticketing speeders that way? Oh yeah…maybe that’s the point after all…
Back in the mid 70s the town of Cleo Springs, OK (a wide spot in the road) had one cop and his rig was a mid 60s VW Bug. The air-cooled cruiser had a two-way radio and magnetic signs for the doors.
The newspaper quote from the cop was, “Well, I can’t really catch anybody but the radio can…”.
Tickets by airplane? LOL–have you priced hourly rental of a Cessna recently? And then there’s knowing that most overcast days are carte blanche. speed days.
The last time I witnesssed aerial speed patrol was late '90s, north of Durango, CO. Cessna (always a high-wing) doing racetrack pattrrns over the roadway. VERY noticable, if you know what to look for.
Nowadays I just go PSL+5 and don’t worry, but as a younger man (and with cheaper gas) I was an uabashed speeder. I think, though, a deliberate speeder has an obligation to be on top of his game, and avoiding speed traps is a good “gut check” as to whether or not one is vigilant…if you’re paying attention, you ought to be able to avoid almost all traps.
Speed enforcement doesn’t prevent speeding…it prevents every dummy on the road from speeding.
I’ve only seen the aerial enforcement signs on limited access roads. Surely the State Police buy the planes. Still, they have to coordinate their pinch with ground patrol. That’s two assets when only one is needed. A patrol car can’t go very long without encountering a speeder. It makes me wonder if the aerial surveillance signs are just a ruse.
Unmarked patrol cars driving along with the traffic achieve many of the same goals that aerial patrol does. It catches the real jerks out there.
I was on Highway 71 south bound heading toward’s Llano TX. The highway posted at 70. This is a two lane highway so in order to pass, you need a passing zone or a climbing lane. I was in a line of cars going almost the speed limit. In my rear view mirror, I saw a particularly aggressive jerk driving extremely fast and passing car after car and not bothering to wait for a passing zone. He passed me and the van in front of me in one pass crossing the double yellow line to do so. About a mile more down the road, the van ahead of me turns on his hazard lights and slows way down allowing a trooper to make a U-turn in front of him and then speeds back up, I suspected maybe for that speeder. A few miles later, there was that speeder pulled over by at least two troopers and the van joins them and turns on his hidden blue and red strobe lights. I don’t think it was a good day for that speeder. I had no sympathy for the jerk.
Generally unmarkeds are easily ID’d by vehicle type, plate designation, presence of antennae, etc…if your “head’s in the game”…remember that there’s a statutory minimum distance you must be “paced” if they aren’t using radar.
Aerial is SO easy…high-winged GA, <2000 AGL, racetrack pattern, two fixed markers. I suppose some might not know what to look for, perhaps.
There are a lot of not exactly unmarked but barely marked cop cars in the Austin area. No lightbars on the roof, very low contrast lettering on the side.
After all, just what are the minor infractions where the fines are just money makers for communities and there is no need to pick anyone up for them. Some argue that up to 10 mph over are minor.
Most " safe and responsible drivers " get VERY FEW traffic summons. I know of no safe and responsible drivers who are classified as habitual offenders. If you are driving more then 5 mph but less then 10 mph over the speed limit, regardless of the time of day and regardless of the traffic situation, you stand a much greater chance of getting a summons if you are in the habitual offender catagory then not. I would bet, that some of the biggest complainers are those who have RAP sheets as long as your arms with frequent high threat driving offenses and become biggest whiners when the are ticketed for 7 mph overe late at night with seemingly, no reason for a ticket. The squeaky wheel the grease and the habitual offender gets the shaft.
Btw, the speed trap in the eyes of the offender is the rightful enforcement of speed laws in the eyes of complaining tax payers with kids riding bikes to school on the side of the road. It’s a matter of perspective.
Let me ask a civil question and in a respectful manner, dagosa.
Do you honestly think that 99%+ of police officers are always ethical and only a stray maverick now and then will issue baseless tickets?
On I-70 in STL county the local police sit on the on ramps in side by side ATV type vehicles and they always have cars pulled over.
They kind of blend in as the highways in STL often have side by sides parked on shoulders which are used by mowing companies sprucing up the roads.
@ok4450
Do you think anyone makes the correct decision 99 plus percent of the time ? The problem is here, it seems to be thought that fines are money makers, which they are not…they pay bills for their own execution which is the vast majority of the time done at the request of the tax paying public in the community the police serve. Again my good man, it’s all about perception. SELDOM DOES ANYONE who is a habitual offender or even the occasional speeder give any thought to the lives saved by the threat of getting a speeding summons ( or most other or that matter). Yes, habitual offender speeders are slowed down for a time, with worthwhile results. But, like an addict, they must prosecuted over and over again if the tax paying public can be secure that the highways don’t become a Mad Max gateway.
The police are held accountable for every summons they write as to it’s authenticity. There are few of us in our daily jobs who are held as accountable in the same way.
Do you honestly think that 99%+ of police officers are always ethical and only a stray maverick now and then will issue baseless tickets?
There are so many real speeders out there that they don’t have to issue baseless tickets. I have gotten a grand total of three speeding tickets in my entire life and I’ve been driving and riding motorcycles since 1968. This inspite of the fact that I drive though Lakeway, TX every day, a bedroom community that has a reputation as a speed trap.
“Btw, the speed trap in the eyes of the offender is the rightful enforcement of speed laws in the eyes of complaining tax payers with kids riding bikes to school on the side of the road. It’s a matter of perspective.”
And there’s my perspective…a speed trap is just that, a trap to catch people speeding. It does nothing to prevent speeding in the first place. The whole point of it is to write revenue-generating tickets. Why not get on the road and drive the speed limit. Wouldn’t that reduce speeding more than writing a ticket to only those that get caught?
What’s better, to put robbers in jail or to prevent robberies in the first place?
Had a 15 mile stretch in MN where the trooper was 5 over, but the clog on the highwy indicated no one wanted to push 5 over. I have passed troopers doing 5 over, but they are looking for am 10 or mode over imho. 500 plus rod trip today, some places on the I 20 over was norm for the fast lane.
@Dagosa, around here about half the cops need to be fired or jailed. Both of those scenarios are not uncommon because it’s on the news on almost a weekly basis, The PD will circle the wagons and defend their own to the hilt unless the evidence and PR becomes stifling.
Regarding speed traps, the state did an investigation not many years ago in a certain section of the state. They found that 1 in 5 towns were running speed traps for revenue generation purposes. That’s a total of 15 towns just in one section and it’s not me saying they’re speed traps; it’s state investigators.
@acemaster
"a speed trap is just that. A trap to catch people speeding. I does nothing to prevent people from speeding in the first place "
I guess taking that a step further we could pretty much do away with trying to catch anyone one after committing any offense, from the most trivial traffic offense to the most agregious criminal offense. WTH. The offense has already been committed. No sense in catching them as it did nothing to prevent them from committing the offense in the first place.
Just because a speeder did not kill anyone one or was not involved in an accident, I guess that makes it all right ? Drive on or speed on.
Maybe, just maybe, the tax payers want speed limits enforced in a particular area. Maybe towns actually install speed monitoring devices ( ours does) to help determine where they will set these “traps” as requested by the town and the complaints they receive. So, any cop who waits by the side of the road to pick up speeders and enforce these limits, is engaged in running a speed trap, just to catch speeders ? Well yes. He certainly isn’t there to catch fish.
“why not get on the road and drive the limit ?” Just herd cars like cattle ? The problem with that is, the only speeders you encounter are those next to or behind you and you don’t enforce limits in particular areas. Like school zones and areas with high accidents rates…uses a lot of gas and takes a lot of patrol cars to insect the same number of speeders through a designated area…won’t work except during very limited times.
One thing that seems to work well on our road are radar detectors with your speed displayed on a stand by the road. It is followed up by a traffic cop writing tickets though if the speeds are not adhered to.
@Ok4450
If your town law enforcement is engaged in criminal behavior, take the evidence to the state police. If you feel your state is corrupt, take your evidence to the FBI. If you feel they are corrupt, run for office.
@dagosa, I have held office on the local level and I assure you that no one is going to do anything although I am hesitant to go into details on this forum. Corruption from top to bottom with everyone covering everyone else’s back is the way it works.
If I laid out details you would see what I mean.
There’s an old adage about the point of view being different depending upon whose ox is gored so we will just have to respectfully disagree.
Oh no @dagosa, you’re taking me way out of context and taking my issue to an extreme. I have no problem with punishing those who break the law, nor pursuing and apprehending those that do and levying appropriate fines. I’m a taxpayer and I demand enforcement of laws, and when I break them on occasion and get caught, I pay my fine and go on with my life.
My issue with speed traps is that they are not a deterrent to speeding, nor do they help enforce the law against speeding. They just make money from the fact that people will speed. Hiding behind an embankment with a radar gun doesn’t get people to slow down. In fact, it’s waiting for people to break the law, and then fining them for it. Even the speeder who is ticketed will speed again, agreed?
There’s a fairly busy street with an elementary school facing it. There is regularly a police car behind a concrete wall at the far end of the school zone waiting for speeders. And he tickets them. Now if he parked in plain sight at the beginning of the school zone there would very
likely be far fewer speeders through the school zone.
I can come to no other conclusion than that he is there to write speeding tickets and not to prevent speeding in the first place; that he is there to catch speeders rather than stop them from speeding in the first place. There is a difference between the two, and that’s my issue.
I really don’t have a problem with speed traps, as long as it’s clear that they are about generating revenue and not about law enforcement and safety.
