Is the lug nut thing a ruse? What happened during this oil change?

I use anti seize on wheel studs and tighten the nuts with an impact sans torque stix. Never had a problem after wearing out many impacts and double ended sockets.

Could the OP’s car have had anti-theft lug nuts installed and the shop used a gripper type socket to get them off?

I thought about anti-theft lugs, but 7 is an awfully odd number for them. I was leaning towards the incorrect size, and an over zealous newbie working the tire rotation. After removing a wheel (and working on the next one), a more experienced mech wanders back from having a smoke/coffee and says “Hold up there, dude, get the right socket and you’ll stop tearing up those nuts…” :slight_smile:

I am a long time user of Anti-Sieze. We used it a lot in the chemical industry, due to corrosion issues. You must be very careful on any bolt or stud that is torqued. When you use a lubricant like Anti-Sieze you must use less torque or you will stretch the screws and cause failure. Check with the manufacture and find out how much you must reduce the torque- they due have tables for all types of screw sizes and sometime materials.

The oil fill cap may have been left off and that’s why you might have the persistent smell. Have it checked right away, it might be spraying oil on the engine.

That’s cool…I knew there would be two sides of the fence on the Anti-Seize issue for sure and I’m OK with that. I really really don’t like dry threads on any nut and bolt combo to be honest.

I am ALSO with OLDTIMER 100%…but instead of his method I actually put the lube on the wheel inner face and also the center cutout…Too many times I have had to deal with Aluminum corrosion in both of these areas…it almost welds the wheel to the hub when it gets out of hand.

I’m aware of the supposed “dangers” of lubing my wheel studs and I accept the risk…I am also not Ham Fisted when dealing with my lugs and the amount of torque applied while tightening them… SO…I will be OK…

I just wanted to know if there were others like me out there. It’s been 25 years and COUNTLESS wheels removed/installed…never a single wheel loosening issue nor any over tightening of the lugs either…and ALSO…no rusty, squeaky, horribly dry lug/stud issues either. Everything has been smooth sailin…

SORRY FOR steering us off course here…LOL

Blackbird.

Oh back to the topic…I bet the shop used those"Lug Remover sockets" just as Rod Knox mentions… to get them off…Those will tear up a lug something fierce…But hey they get them off. That’s what would lead to a nasty lug appearance for sure…so just be happy they didn’t try/have to MELT them off…Ever see what that does? LOL…This is all assuming that they couldn’t get them off normally…as a last resort they prob used that special nasty socket that cuts into the lug to remove them. But why did they encounter 7 lugs that were too difficult to remove? That IS a rather high number for one vehicle… Methinks these boneheads had quite a bit of a hand to play in this scenario…

ALSO>…BACK TO THE OP…I was worried that they could have overfilled your crankcase (in my previous post)…thus creating the smoke and smell…Just check your dipstick as well as the oil filler cap… If the cap was left off you will get a TON of oil vapors …and then they will be drawn into your ventilation system easily…So two important things to check…The oil filler cap and the oil level on the dipstick…

Again sorry for steering your post into the Anti-Sieze land of Stud lubing…LOL

Blackbird

well thank you folks! in particular HondaBlackbird, Keith and Willey who prompted me to check the oil in the first place. Willey nailed it, they forgot to put the oil fill cap on. All I had to do was open the hood and immediately I saw the cap, upside down, cradled in the filler opening…DOH! There was oil splattered everywhere. I drove 700 miles like this! I took a photo, checked the oil (miraculously not low), replaced the cap and drove directly back to the shop. The owner apologized, said it was unacceptable, cleaned up the engine, topped of oil, REPLACED THE CAP, and gave me a card for a free oil change (hmmmm).

I think if we assume the same person who changed the oil (how does that go? ‘independent of the thought process’) also did the tire rotation …we have an answer to the question of why there was so much difficulty in removing the lug nuts and the condition they were in (and for the record they were not anti-theft, not rusted, and did not have decorative chrome caps), although it could have been the prior shop (dealership) who did the tire rotation the last time. Regardless, some mechanic was having a really bad day or had a really late night, or both.

No longer am I suspicious of the shop trying to rip me off with the lug nuts, unfortunately I think they have a mechanic that needs some help or perhaps is better suited for another vocation. Hopefully the shop owner will address.

THANKs!

p.s. I do live in a cold climate and I think that’s why, as many suggested, I was seeing more exhaust smoke -which I incorrectly associated with the smell of the smoking engine oil.

This happens A LOT… Glad you found it…and remember…DO NOT be afraid to open that hood…its your friend.

Blackbird

I know I am late to the party but just wanted to let Blackbird know that I am in his camp regarding anti-seize on the studs. I have been doing it for 25 years and tightening with a torque stick. The only trouble I ever have is when “Zippy” at the garage takes his air gun and tightens the lugs until the gun stops moving. This happened recently after new tires were installed. I took the vehicle back to the garage, made them inspect the lugs for damage, and then reinstall the wheels using a torque stick.

I have never had lugs loosen up on me during driving.

I use anti-seize and have never had a problem. It would seem to me that if anti-seize is used and lugs come loose then that would be due to insufficient tightening of the lugs or the the threads were already damaged in some manner.

Improper removal of the lugs can certainly damage them. A gentleman who bought a new VW from a dealer I worked for decided the first service on his new VW was too expensive. (An oil change, tire rotation, and general checkover)
He decided to do this himself even though he apparently had no mechanical ability.

He chose to remove (or tried to) the lugs on the LF wheel with the 12" long, angled emergency lug wrench in the vehicle tool kit. He rounded off 3 lugs before giving up and returning to us.
What did he blame this on?
The lugs “were made of soft, inferior metal”.
The factory lug wrench “was of poor design and shoddily made”.
The plastic wheel covers (which he cracked during removal) “were made of cheap, inferior plastic”.

Of course he wanted warranty and stated the lugs were frozen in place because “they were installed too tightly at the factory”.
In the shop and with a proper socket every single one of those lugs came loose with no problem at all.

Some people should REALLY learn their limits…I know mine and granted they are few :)…but I still know em.
Some people should never ever even think of getting involved with mechanical devices…

Blackbird

Were those lugs left hand threads? The nightmares from twisting off left hand thread lugs were once common. Many young, inexperienced counter men have wiped egg off their faces when they didn’t pay attention to the fine print on the screen and label and couldn’t understand why the 1/2 nut would not thread on the 1/2 inch stud.

In the case of the VW I mentioned, those lugs were all normal right hand thread. The guy was canting that dinky tool kit lug wrench at an angle and it kept slipping off on him. (By his own admission)
Apparently he was too cheap to own a socket or 4-Way and thought the factory tool kit was fine for all occasions.

The sad part (and stewed me to no end) was that the idiot service manager we had believed this guy and not only agreed to warranty a full set of new lug nuts but also a full set of new (fancier and more expensive wheel covers) under warranty.

I was the shop foreman, raised hxxx with the service manager over this, and finally told him the company was going to eat a chunk of money the following month on a denied warranty claim. Find out the hard way was my opinion.

When the VW rep dropped around he wasn’t there 10 minutes when out he comes to the shop looking for me wanting to know what the deal was on that claim. I explained the situation and the fact that I had argued tooth and nail against this repair being a warrantable one.
The VW rep stated that he figured that was what happened and proceeded to absolutely ream the service manager while questioning his ancestry in colorful language. The company ate every penny of this, go figure, and the service manager was one of the big reasons the company eventually went under a couple of years later.
He was the brother of the dealership’s owner so he wasn’t gettting axed no matter how stupid he was; and believe me, he was stupid in spades.

blanched, I am still a little concerned about the studs (lugs). This can wait until the next rotation, but when you have that done, have the owner of this new place you are going to personally inspect each lug/stud for damage to the threads.

I’m thinking that someone in the past has cross threaded the lug nuts and damaged the threads, that could be why they were so hard to remove. If the threads are damaged a little. they can be restored with a thread restoring die, aka thread rolling die, but not with a thread cutting die. The cutting dies are the most common. If the threads are real bad, then new lugs should be installed.

If the car came from the factory with an emergency lug wrench that not only doesn’t work in emergencies but actually damages parts, he should have gotten warranty coverage.

edited to add:

“The guy was canting that dinky tool kit lug wrench at an angle and it kept slipping off on him. (By his own admission)”

You left that part out when I replied. Nevermind. Given the full story of course you’re right.

Honda and others, I use a small amount of anti-sieze too on the studs. I’ll use a air gun just to snug up the nuts then torque them by hand. Unless I’m losing strength in my old age, I can pretty much tell by feel the proper torque. Its no fun if you have to change a tire on the road and the dang things are so rusted you spin the wheel trying to get them off, especially on a trailer. You usually don’t have a long breaker bar along or someone to step on the brakes to keep the wheel from spinning, like you would at home or in the shop.

Man I hear ya Bing…I think its sacrilege to not provide a thread with at least a little dab of lubricant. The converse is when you use Lock-tite for the other affect but otherwise…It just shouldn’t happen…My God could you imagine what my trailer lugs would be like w/o waterproof grease on the threads? They would all be in ONE PIECE after the Salt Water dunking it goes thru…despite the thorough rinsing it gets after.

Blackbird

I use WD-40 on the lug bolts, strictly for rust proofing.

Last set of tires, the Yokohama warranty is no good once I cross the border into Mexico, so I didn’t even rotate them. Every year or so, I’d spray the bolts with WD-40 as stated. When the tires wore out, the tire place said no alignment needed because the tire wear was uniform.

Not that I’d recommend anyone bet on that, but on this car (2002 Sienna with 180,000+) at this time it worked. Incredible. Especially so when you know where it is driven. Hard, primitive, rocky mountain roads at times. Last year the skid plate got ripped up, when I had to drive over a pile of construction dirt that had a big rock hidden in it. Still no suspension or alignment problems.

One tire had like 3 repairable nail holes. One tire got gashed, but I tend to keep extra tires due to the high number of road hazard failures here, so I put one of them on.

Yokohama is correct in not guaranteeing their tires when driven into Mexico.