Not all of it. She dumped it before it was ever actually diagnosed. I would guess BCM had some involvement just based on some of the stuff that kept going wrong, although the center console went dark because her phone was not on the (very small) list of acceptable phones to pair with the car, and so rather than having error code that would just reject the connection, it would make the connection and then occasionally crash.
And because in their brilliance they daisy chained everything in the console so that one module going dark killed all of them, any time her phone crashed the bluetooth receiver the air conditioner stopped working, as did the radio.
My father-in-law was a machinist before a motorcycle wreck that left him in a wheelchair. He used to work with German CNC machines a lot. He often says the same thing I do - German engineering is wonderfully precise, but assumes the assembler and the end user will both only ever build/use the machine the way the designer assumes it will be done, with absolutely no deviation of any kind whatsoever. And if that ever doesn’t happen the machine freaks out.
If they didn’t have that philosophy, then the car would just reject an incompatible phone, and even if it didn’t, a BT module crash wouldn’t take half the car with it because they would have built “error handling” into the system rather than “Error handling? There will be no errors, I have decreed it.”
“The customer must rigidly comply with all the rules, including the stupid ones” is not a great way to design consumer goods.
I guess I wasn’t clear in my post.
We tired that but…
The managing computer disabled the alternator and spewed error codes because there was no fan speed signal.
I suppose we could have hacked the alternator to work without computer control, but who wants to go down that road of unintended consequences?
Not really. From the article you posted: “As with all gelled and sealed units, AGM batteries are sensitive to overcharging. Automotive charging systems for flooded lead acid often have a fixed float voltage setting of 14.40V (2.40V/cell); a direct replacement with a sealed unit could overcharge the battery on a long drive.” Also not noted in the article batteries deteriorate with age and require slightly different charging strategies as they age.
Since BMWs can operate with either a flooded or AGM battery, it is necessary to tell the car which is installed and how old it is. Mercedes uses a very similar system. This is really no different than the shop battery charger that we use when a car comes in with a dead battery. We need to select lead-acid or AGM to properly charge the battery.
It seems we’re arguing over shades of gray.
The fact that AGM are more delicate because there’s no easy way to replace lost water from overcharging does not justify BMW’s complicated protocol for battery replacement, IMHO.
I’ve seen plenty of AGM applications where you just swap new for old and all is well.
The first part of this statement I can agree with.
Just note that no one has talked in this thread about substituting one type for the other up to this point.
As to age, I have never seen any battery makers charge recommendations that change with battery age
It doesn’t have to be a factory scan tool, there are many aftermarket options available.
Like it or not, we are in an age where I need a scan tool of some sort to replace a power window switch on a Silverado, install a battery in a BMW, replace the brake pads on a Subaru or VW, and so on.
We all have wrenches, screwdrivers, sockets in our toolboxes. A scan tool of some sort is just another wrench to have in your kit.
Almost every new car has an infotainment display. It could easily serve as the diagnostic interface. Realistically, any annunciator in the dash, along with the brake or gas pedal, could be used to select battery type or to reset it. They choose not to do that for one reason only- increase the threshold of difficulty to force most people in for simple service functions.
There are some small victories, though. My 2017 Accord EX-L has a TPMS reset button. I’m supposed to use it any time the tires are rotated or air is added to the tires. It’s not much, but it’s more than you can do with other automobile TPM systems.
I’ve seen a case where the proximity sensor in front/passenger handle was causing BMW not to start at all
Car was brought to the dealer and they failed to find the root cause, but found the correlation of disconnecting proximity system to car finally running, so “the fix” was to unplug the proximity system control module and return the car to the customer.
The customer became unhappy and brought it to another shop, who found disconnected control module and kept troubleshooting until the defective sensor in a door handle was identified.
Handle sensor and control module had one dedicated sensor wire, so the trouble was not even involving CANBUS communications, other than proximity system control module broadcasting “I’m unhappy” message around.
Now, for the life of me, I do not understand WHY whoever designed this ingenious car made decision to completely shut down the engine system based on trouble in optional secondary body system…
What bothers me about the present is that I have lost control over keeping my vehicles and household appliances working. When one of our vehicles needs a battery, it was great to go down the street to Walmart, pick up a battery, bring it home and install it. Having to go.to the dealer and go through a procedure.to register the battery seems strange to me.
I think about the earlier post about the proximity sensor in the door handle. I didn’t have such a sensor in my 1950 Chevrolet pickup truck. I had to tie the door shut with binder twine. I don’t know what the proximity sensor in the door handle would do, but the binder twine kept the door closed.
What may happen with the cars with all these features is that these cars will be worthless as used cars. I remember Tom McCahill wrote in his book “What You Should Know About Cars” , published around 1963, that he had two friends. One friend bought a VW Beetle and the other a Cadillac. Both cars were purchased new and well maintained. Four years later, with both cars having gone about the same number of miles, the four year old VW and four year old Cadillac were worth the same amount of money, even though the Cadillac cost almost three times as much as the VW when both vehicles were new. I can today that a used BMW and a used Toyota Corolla of the same vintage we be worth the same. Most used car buyers are looking for reliable, easy to maintain and repair transportation.
I know today’s vehicles are far superior to vehicles of the 1970s, but many vehicles today are really expensive and difficult to repair.
I learned a lot growing up and doing much of our own repairs to.our cars and around the house. I could keep.the television set operating. I could completely overhaul the two stroke engine on the LawnBoy mower. I could replace the generator, carburetor, fuel pump, spark plugs and ignition points on the cars.
I just feel like I have lost control. Part of it is that I am 78 years old and haven’t kept up. However, batteries that have to be registered and.perimeter sensors in door handles seem like needless complications.
Yeah, it doesn’t make sense to me either. I would not buy a vehicle which requires a professional scan tool to perform basic maintenance such as battery replacement, oil and oil filter change, transmission fluid and filter change, etc. In fact, I would not buy anything which requires any maintenance more complicated than what a 1995 Toyota Corolla or other similar vehicle from that time requires. It may make sense to some people to buy such a vehicle, but I am not that person.
What about the fact that those vehicles you’re not considering almost certainly get much greater fuel economy than the presumably older vehicles you would be comfortable buying
As for requiring a scan tool for transmission fluid and filter services, that is not quite the case
GM and Ford will nowadays display the automatic transmission fluid temperature on the multifunction display. Even our fleet trucks have that feature, and they’re not even close to optioned out.
Toyota won’t do that . . . but there is a “secret” method of getting into the fluid check mode, at which point certain indicators will turn on and/or flash, to let you know the atf is at the right temperature for checking the fluid level
In case it wasn’t clear to anybody reading . . . I’m talking about those automatic transmissions which don’t have a dipstick
Don’t need a scan tool to add fluid
I’m not currently aware of any vehicle which requires a scan tool to perform an engine oil and filter service, either. Even those without a dipstick typically have a level sensor and a method for the multifunction display to tell you if the level’s correct, high, low, or what have you
It would snip the binder twine so that you can open the door. Then when you walk away from the vehicle, it would automatically re-tie the binder twine so you don’t have to.
@shadowfax. Even back in 1972, a person didn’t get a great truck for $120. The truck was a one ton 1950 Chevrolet. It had a smooth running stove bolt 6 and an easy to shift 4 speed transmission. I had 5 acres in the country. I hauled hay–50 bales at a time and stretched fence with the truck. It was a real work horse.
I also didn’t have to register the battery. In fact, it didn’t seem to hurt anything to jump start the truck’s 6 volt system from a 12 volt battery.
For me, I would rather have a vehicle that had a little tolerance for abuse than a precisely engineered vehicle that would be damaged by s jump start it lose its marbles when the battery is disconnected.
I agree, but I’m pretty comfortable with modern technology nonetheless.
The car I just sold last year was a 2007 Acura TL. It had a lot of fancy electronic doodads. I was sure when I bought it that those fancy toys would fail - I figured I’d just let them be dead when they died, and enjoy them until then.
Well I had that car for 12 years and almost 160,000 miles and not one electronic toy ever failed. In fact, not much failed on that car at all. I had to replace a power steering pump o-ring, an evaporative purge valve, and the little gas shocks that held the hood up. The last thing that went wrong with it was that an axle snapped because it had rusted under the rubber damper due to all the salt they put on the roads here.
My wife has a 2012 Veloster which has more electronic toys than the Acura did. It also has yet to lose any of them. Modern electrical equipment is by and large very reliable (which makes BMW look even worse!)
Overall, a modern car needs less work at less frequent intervals to stay on the road. You don’t have to repack bearings, you don’t have to grease zerks, you don’t have to deal with points, you change spark plugs much less frequently. Oil changes are less frequent too. I too find it annoying that I need a scan tool to change brake fluid, battery, etc. On the other hand, I’m changing those things less often, and I’m changing cars less often too, and all while driving a more comfortable, more safe, and overall better vehicle.
It’s a tradeoff I’m pretty OK with, though I definitely understand why some would long for the old days of simple, if less durable, machinery.
@shadowfax I haven’t had any real problems with the electronics on the 2017 Toyota Sienna I presently own or my previous 2011 Sienna. The power sliding doors are a real positive when I have handicapped passengers. I have never had a problem with the automatic temperature control on any vehicle I’ve owned.
I don’t think, however, that I want a fussy car like a BMW where I would have to register the battery. @db4690. I do have a device that I can plug into a power outlet that will.maintain the memory and audio settings while I change the battery.
My problem is that I have fallen behind the times. What friendly mechanics taught me as a teenager back.in the 1950s got me through the mid 1980s on maintenance and some repairs on my vehicles. My job got too demanding and I didn’t have time to learn how to do my own work. I don’t have any scan tools.
I do appreciate modern cars that are much more reliable and require less maintenance than the cars of earlier years. However, I am not really able to do much if something does go wrong.
