The nice thing about citing my source (Honda), is that I don’t have to list my credentials to bolster my credibility, unlike the guy who cites an unnamed source.
1 Like
I guess I did an exchange, learned at trailvoy.com. Disconnect the trans line at the cooler, put to a 5 gal bucket, start the engine and pour in as fast as it is being pumped out. A pan drain only does 6 of 12 quarts on my vehicle. I put quart marks on the bucket. pumped out 14 quarts and poured in 14 quarts. Fluid coming out was looking good at the end. I was overdue at 145k miles. I bought it at 85k miles, a fleet car so assumed trans was taken care of. Pan drop and filter 40k miles later. Trans was acting a little differently and figured the trans filter was clogged. Yup you can sure tell the amateurs, guilty.
Here’s the filter for the transmission.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4974915&cc=1447350&jsn=363
And it’s located inside the transmission. Item 5
Tester
You obviously did care to maintain them. The mistake many make is towing trailers with their Hondas. My very careful neighbor towed a travel trailer with their Honda minivan. Burned out the transmission.
This family has 5 Hondas; a Pilot, Accord and three Civics. They are a poster family for the brand.
I have towed campers with all manner of automatics, Ford, GM and Chrysler and have always had auxiliary cooler on the vehicles. I don’t recommend towing campers with front drive minivans.
So this means that to do a proper job the pan should be dropped.
The car has 48k on it. The tranny was fllushed at 28k. Maybe I should do
nothing. A new guy has bought my usual shop and I am unsure of him.
Of course he wants to do a flush.
You always want to do a pan drop before a flush if possible.
What is found in the pan determines if a flush is worth it or not.
As it said in the article, if the shop won’t do a pan drop before a flush, find another shop.
Tester
I never had much problem with the idea of a transmission fluid exchange until I read the instructions for doing it in your post. The thought that a shop trying to make money might be tempted to not follow ALL those steps exactly, the information that they are going to introduce a cleaner into my transmission and hopefully flush it all out. pause partway through the procedure and drive it 15 minutes to give it time to clear everything makes me skeptical. They are going to use the machine on multiple makes of cars each with specific fluid requirements. Are they going to clean out the machine after every use or are they going to use a "universal: fluid and just throw an additive pack at each car?
I am a lot less inclined to have it done than before I read your post. I will stick with a drain and fill.
My vote is with Tester as usual.
As I’ve read a few times in the past it’s been said that a “flush machine creates too much pressure and ruins the transmission” in one way or the other.
It should be pointed out that the vast majority of transmission fluid exchange machines use the transmission’s own fluid pump to perform this “flush” so I fail to see where this excessive pressure comes from.
The main problem w/only doing a flush imo, since the pan isn’t removed for a simple flush, there’s no easy way to tell if metal debris or other evidence of transmission damage is in progress, as evidenced by what’s in the bottom of the pan. Not being able to clean the gunk from the bottom of the pan or replace the transmission filter is another concern for a flush-only procedure. I’d have no problems with a transmission flush as long as it were preceded by removing & cleaning the pan and changing the trans filter. The flushing process itself should be able to remove and replace considerably more of the old trans fluid.
The transmission fluid costs almost $100, what about the labor?
Drain and fill on this Honda calls for 2.5 quarts of ATF, the transmission capacity is 6.2 quarts.
The transmission fluid exchange machines that I have used are 20 years old (paid for long ago) and some of them were provided by the fluid supply company.
Jiffy Lube should not have power flush machines, those are for transmission shops and I have never seen one in a maintenance type shop. The common less expensive fluid exchange machine is all that is needed. The Jiffy Lube site states that they offer a transmission fluid exchange service.
Before we had long life transmission fluids I used to perform transmission services every day and “metal debris” is not something found during regular maintenance.
This Honda does not have a removable pan on the bottom and there is no reason to suspect that it is failing and there would be debris to look for.
The OP might find this useful.
6 Things to Know About Your Car’s Transmission
Maintaining the gearbox is important—and often overlooked
By Consumer Reports
Dropping the pan, if so equipped, is a good idea. It can provide a look-see into potential transmission failure if the pan has metallic debris and/or a more than minor coating of black gunk in the bottom of the pan.
One thing not mentioned is that transmission fluid can look fine but that does not mean that it is. The fluid may survive but the additives in the fluid will not.
…
No.
My 05 4runner used Toyota’s WS fluid. Toyota said it was a life-time fluid. Since 2005 Toyota no longer claims it’s a lifetime fluid. They now recommend fluid change every 100k miles. I get mine replaced (drain and fill) every 50k miles. The transmission place I go to does NOT recommend a fluid exchange on some vehicles. Toyota seems to be one of them. Only drain and replace drop pan and replace filter… And that’s all I’ve ever done on every automatic we’ve owned over the past 35+ years. Never had a problem.
“Lifetime” fluids always get me. Briggs and Stratton came out with some engines they say never need an oil change within the last few years. They are small air-cooled mower engines. I cannot see anything used in such a hot and dirty environment being a lifetime fluid. I am sure they specify synthetic as the factory fill but still… The average user of something like this probably just rolls it out to the curb the first time it doesn’t start. I have picked up several mowers from the curb on those bulk trash days. Some are good and others are too far gone. Usually they only need a carb cleaning.
Toyota has been burned by extended change intervals in the past. Look at the oil sludging issues with the engines. These engines were not bad but the specified change interval was. I suspect they have started to see some transmission failures related to old fluid as well. Only use the Toyota fluid!
Bought a LawnBoy a couple of years ago for the cabins. Lifetime oil also.
2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid.
Does it have a droppable tranny pan? A filter inside?
This is a CVT.
My mower guy says there is nothing stopping you or wrong with changing the oil on one of these “lifetime oil” mowers and suggests it. You can tip them over or suck the oil out. Of course you may not get it all without the drain plug but it is kinda like your transmission. You get most of it out and it isn’t a big deal if done on time. The one thing about these engines is that there isn’t a filter so hopefully all the wear metals just settle to the bottom of the pan and stay there until it is tipped over and changed. The oil on a new mower engine looks like metallic paint when you change it for the first few times.
None of the commercial equipment uses this “lifetime oil” system for obvious reasons.
All CVTs I have seen have a change interval on the fluid. CVTs are a strange animal and the fluid is specially made for them as well. I do not know what system the Toyota has but read the manual that came with the car on how and when to do this. I think the last one I looked into had a 50,000 mile change interval so you are probably around that mark on a 2014 car.
1 Like
Wasn’t aware Toyota backed off the “lifetime” trans fluid recommendation. Wife’s 13 highlander still says lifetime.
But I already changed it once anyway 