I bought my trusty Chevy Prizm in late 06’ when it had 83K miles on it. It is now up to 263K, and it has been awesome. The one thing about it is that somewhere around 120K, it began giving emissions related codes. No change in actual performance, but just couldn’t get that Check Engine Light to go off. Replaced O2 sensors, Mass Flow (twice), and even the Caty. Eventually, I just figured I’d done all I could and decided to keep driving till there was a problem. Couldn’t keep putting $ into a car that wasn’t showing any problems. And well, it just kept going.
I always wondered though, if I was driving a heavy polluter. I came on with this question some time earlier this year, and the discussion was pretty enlightening. Multiple commenters said that a “System Too Lean” code doesn’t necessarily mean you are worse on emissions than a car not giving that code. It could just mean your engine is working harder than normal to get to the correct balance. Others assured me that if my car was truly having an emissions issue, it wouldn’t keep running incident-free and like a top for so many years. (literally, the only thing I have done the last 50K besides regular maintenance is to remove the Mass Flow and clean with contact spray once, which is kind of regular maintenance for this car anyway.)
That made me feel better, but some wanted me to pull all codes and post them. I never got around to that at the time, but I finally am getting around to it now.
P0300-- Random Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0171-- System Too Lean Bank 1
P0420–Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1
P1349-- Intake Camshaft Position System
Good ideas above, definitely where to start. If nothing discovered, you may have a problem with the engine’s variable valve timing system. This idea is more likely if engine oil and filter changes have been routinely deferred.
Thanks for the replies guys. Sounds like there’s a decent spread of possible causes. To be clear, I’m actually giving it away this month to a charitable cause and just want to be able to tell them whether it’s a real polluter or not.
From your posts, I’m guessing there’s no way to really know that without some thorough investigation under the hood?
Again, I replaced 02 sensors, mass flow, and caty many, many moons ago. It’s ran super smooth for over 100K miles, all the while spitting out those codes. Is that not evidence that the emissions problem must be very minor and possibly even non-existent (instead just a lingering code from a non OEM part?)
Since you are donating it don’t do anything more. They might fix it and use it or they will auction it for the cash. Most charities auction the vehicles they get. You will get a receipt for the auction amount and that may be tax deductible. Most people I know do better with the standard deduction so don’t expect tax help. Feeling good about your donation is your reward.
If you really want to use your assessed fair market value for tax purposes donate to a charity that uses the car themselves or provides it to someone that needs a car but can’t afford to buy one. Something like Kars for Kids works this way I think. There are others.
Yeah, not planning on doing any repair but just want to give them an honest report. Trying to get an idea of whether it’s a big polluter or not, but it sounds like we can’t discern that just from the codes.
I doubt anyone will care. Most charities are not capable of reconditioning vehicles for retail sale. A vehicle this old will likely be sold to an automotive salvage yard.
Yeah, you’re probably right. I guess there’s also a part of me that just wants to know, but that urge to know ain’t strong enough to spend the time/money investigating.
Don’t donate this vehicle, a charity will likely sell it to a junkyard. If this car is at all in decent condition, and it runs reasonably well, sell it on Craigslist or another similar website so someone can buy it to drive.
As long as the car is in decent running condition, and the body is decent, it should still be worth at least $1200-1500 in a private-party sale, which is more than the pittance that a charity will get from selling to a junkyard, plus then someone in need of cheap transportation can continue to drive the car.
Well that’s you. If I needed a car, and this was available, I’d jump on it, knowing that I could fix it myself, and have a decent car for less than $2k.
I would only list it for sale if I was sure it wasn’t a heavy polluter, and it sounds like from the feedback, there’s no real way to know for sure without some pretty thorough investigation.
In my opinion, by the time you . . . or anyone, for that matter . . . was done fixing the problems that caused all those codes, the purchase price and the cost of the parts would have handily exceeded the car’s value
Just the catalyst itself . . . if it’s needed . . . can get VERY expensive
Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that the underlying problem is a stretched timing chain, and that the catalytic converter is worn out. While doing those repairs, I am likely to perform other “might as well” repairs, such as a new water pump, new radiator hoses, heater hoses, etc.
A quick check of RockAuto shows that a brand-name timing chain kit with tensioner (Cloyes) costs $159, a brand-name 47-state direct-fit catalytic converter (Davico) costs $278, and if needed, a brand-name VVT solenoid (Gates) costs $42.
So for about $700 in parts, materials, and fluids, I could fix this, and drive it payment-free for several years. Tell me again how that’s such a bad deal?
After the repairs, the car will still be worth squat
And do you value your time?
I sure value my own time
I’m not buying someone else’s junker, investing hundreds and a ton of time for a car that still will be next to worthless afterwards
It’s a stranger’s car and there’s every reason to believe it needs FAR more work than is indicated by the fault codes
You don’t know the car’s history or anything
What if it’s rusted out, has been crashed multiple times, has bald tires, worn out suspension, etc.
And nothing’s going to change the fact this car’s already 23 years old and no matter how pristine it is after your work, things will keep breaking down and probably at a faster rate than on a brand new car
Suggest to just print out the list of diagnostic codes and let the buyer (or charity) decide; then you are being honest and they can decide for themselves whether they want your car or not. From your description – presuming there’s no thick cloud of smoke out the tailpipe – most likely the main air pollutant from your car is a little raw gasoline vapor (HC) being spat out the tailpipe. Caused by the misfires.
and a ton of time for a car that still will be next to worthless afterwards