@texases The problem with denigrating older cars as “the driving safety equivalent of an aluminum can” is that it leads to an arms race mentality. Sure, my '07 Acura is “safer” than my '91 CRX (although only in an actual collision - as far as avoiding a collision by maneuvering quickly, I’ll take the CRX or your GTI any day). And a 2014 Acura is safer yet. But as cars continue to get heavier and more armored, cars will continue to get heavier and more armored just to be “safe” if they get hit by a heavier, more armored car.
Traffic fatality statistics bear this idea out. If you look at the fatality per year history, we’re not really all that much safer from a statistically-likely-to-die-behind-the-wheel standpoint than we were in the 1950’s. Average per-year traffic fatalities in the 1950’s were around 36,000. In 2011, it was 32,367. In 2010 it was 32885. The 2000-2009 period was worse, with average yearly fatalities being around 41,000.
There is actually an interesting theory about this discussed in the book “Traffic,” by Tom Vanderbilt, that the safer we make cars, the safer we make drivers feel, and so they drive more recklessly because they don’t feel as unsafe doing it. Kind of the “I have a 4x4, so I can go as fast as I want in the snow storm” mentality.
The point I was trying to make is that if we were still making light cars that were not rapidly becoming road-going tanks, we could easily hit Prius-level mpgs in simple 4-banger cars with no exotic technology. They’d be cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, and would be just as fuel-saving as the heavier, more expensive versions we’re saddled with today.
I do not consider 50mpg to be progress when we were getting 50mpg out of cars 25 years ago. If we would concentrate on making cars more efficient rather than more “safe,” we would today be chuckling at the notion that an “efficient” car only gets 50mpg.
And considering that I’m probably going to pay $4.60 for gas this afternoon, I’d be all for it.
"Respectfully, I don’t believe companies that stand to profit from people believing things about their product when they refuse to release actual statistics to back up their claims about that product. - "
Good point. CR recently re tested an old Prius and have checked the long term reliability of these cars. They seem to back up Toyota’s claim.
The IMPORTANT thing to remember is that a hybrid made by Ford and a hybrid made by Toyota or GM are not the same cars. I know that seems obvious but we do get comments that put them all n the same box.
Fair enough. I’ll admit to being completely wrong about the fatality rate because I was dumb and didn’t consider how much more driving we’re doing these days.
Now when I say something like back in the good old days cars were getting the same mpg they are now…ect. I get flamed. Crazy.
The whole reason why fatalities went down isnt because of air bags, crumple zones and heavier cars, no Its because we did away with the drum brake up front.
The 1990 Geo Metro XFi had a 1L 3cyl engine rated for 49hp and 58ft.lbs torque that gave 43/51mpg
The 2013 Prius has a 1.8L I4 rated 134hp and 104ft.lbs. torque and gives 53/48mpg
The Geo weighed 1682lbs and the Prius weighs 3042 lbs.
You get similar mpg from a car with nearly triple the hp, double the torque, and double the weight. AND you’ll be a whole lot safer in the Prius than you would the Metro
Safety and emission equipment add weight to the vehicle, so you need more power to move it. As power goes up, mpg goes down, though car companies are doing good to get to the mpg of old from a larger, more powerful car
Can you afford the car? Is the real question. The minor question is where to charge-which is like, If I go somewhere, “Where are the toilets”.
The issue of charging is less than you think since all of the cars have a gas engine. The time to charge your battery is dependent on the amount of charge that you have remaining -ie cellphone. Although the car may take 3 hrs to charge on a 240V charge station, it only takes about 30 minutes on a 440V station-from a near dead state to a full charge. A half charge battery will take Half as long to charge.
If you want to resale, The hybrid vehicle will keep its value longer and will probably have a better interior.
I like Hybrids for no other reason than get to use less subsidized and mandated gasohol.
Wow, lot to think about here. I like the ETHICAL idea of a hybrid, which is basically how I weight all my pros and cons… Go ahead, stereotype me as some hippie-schmoo, that’s fine. The charging station question is a big one. I like to take road trips, and I’m guessing there’s not a long of electric car charging stations between the Midwest and the coasts. Also, obviously the price… But if I do buy new, I plan on making this car last me the next 10 years.
Now when I say something like back in the good old days cars were getting the same mpg they are now.
The reason being is because they aren’t. NOT even close. I can show you car after car after car that is HEAVIER today…has BETTER performance and is getting 30 to 50 percent BETTER gas mileage then the good old days…And let’s not forget they pollute a lot less.
@shadowfax I agree that the total number of deaths on the highways is about the same as in the 50s. What this REALLY MEANS is that the miles driven is now 16 times what it was then. The population of the USA has also gone from 152 million in the 50s to over 330 million now!
Statistics are based on RATES of death or probabilities. You are 16 times less likely to die in a car accident now then in the 50s.
However, the number of accidents not resulting in death has climbed with the population. And in that respect you are just as likely to have an accident than 50 years ago, but the chance of death or severe injury is a fraction of what it used to be.
I lived from 1951 to 1956 in a town of 2400 people. During that time, 4 inhabitants were killed in car accidents. And this town had no traffic congestion whatever. If you projected this over the current US population, you would have 110,000 deaths per year.
Similarly, air travel is immensely safer in spite of the regular news items of crashes.
