I still clearly remember some of the salespeople at the dealership I worked for
One guy’s approach was to “not give anything away” . . . he tried to maximize profits on every sale
One lady’s approach was to make money in volume. Lots of quick sales, pretty good pricing.
Both of them did pretty well
Both approaches work to a certain degree. When you are doing a mobile service, you cannot charge too little, otherwise you end up losing money or barely breaking even. Plus you lose the opportunity to service a better paying customer by taking on jobs like this.
When people try to nickel and dime me over a few dollars or complain how they don’t like the fact that I charge to show up or for drive time, I have to remind them that there are others paying me a lot more to service locations much father away and are happy to do so. I also have to remind them that they aren’t always on the most beaten path and there there would be no other way anyone would service their location. It is either a choice of paying or not having the services provided even available.
Car sales are a whole different deal. You are captive to that location so selling in volume at a reduced price works better. As for the Mirage, this is a cheap car to start with so there is likely not a lot of room to move on the price. Remember that unless more incentive are offered, odds are there aren’t THOUSANDS of dollars to play with like on some cars.
TWO questions for @cwatkin - 1. So what kind of real world miles per gallon are you getting with your Mirage? Better or worse than the EPA posted numbers?
As far as your GF " She views her Mirage as the new Festiva." I would agree 100% with this assessment.*
*Sidenote to everyone who would point out that Ford now sells a re-iteration of the Festiva, now known as the “Fiesta” (and don’t confuse the two “Fiesta” is a different car than “Festiva”) Consumer Reports gives this car a dismal reliability rating, so I wouldn’t consider it a worthy successor, others may disagree. . .
**Edit to add: In this day and age I guess I have to ask, IS there even a speedometer cable? The point was, how do you change, check, and/or add transmission fluid on the MANUAL transmission?
Considering that even my 1995 Corolla did not have a speedometer cable . . . I think it’s safe to assume the speedo cable has gone the way of the dinosaurs
The oldest vehicles in our fleet are 20 years old, and none of them have a speedo cable
My car hasn’t really been driven enough to get a real mileage number. I have less than 800 miles on it and most people say these don’t break in enough for the number to stabilize until about 1500 miles. My GF’s car seems to get 48-50 mpg now that it is up over 2000 miles on the highway.
I am pretty sure it has a transmission plug much like the Geo Metro. Quite a few people have changed their fluid and no one made mention of anything odd or hard. The Geo Metro still had a speedometer cable up to about 2001 or whenever it was killed off. I haven’t looked into this one yet but it still uses a mechanical clutch cable instead of hydraulic.
Yes, I looked at the reliability ratings of small cars in this price range. The Fiesta, Versa, and Dart were poor so weeded them out. Many of the problems were related to the transmissions. I think if you took the automatics out of the data, the experiences would be much better.
Really the only two in this price range with good reliability are the Kia Rio and the Mirage. I would highly suggest checking out the Rio as the base model isn’t really much more (like $12,700) and comes with a 6 speed manual transmission. Mileage is in the high 30 mpgs or better and it seems like a MUCH larger car although still considered a subcompact. The slimy tactics of the salespeople at that dealer were enough to drive anyone off.
The Chevy Spark, which would be the logical choice in the lineage of the Geo Metro, is somewhere in the middle. The first year or two had issues but they seem to have greatly improved these little cars. They use a timing chain which is nice considering the disastrous timing sets on many of the Daewoo derived cars in the past like the Aveo. My GF really liked the look of the Spark which I agree is nice if you are a fan of small hatchback cars like this. She lost interest instantly after I told her it was a Daewoo design. She views Daewoo as a dirty word after her old car experiences. The Spark probably isn’t a bad car but I certainly wouldn’t go any older than a 2014 model if you get one used. The older ones had more issues, including severe oil burning, etc. I am glad they are working out the bugs.
I hear the Sonic is also a nice car if you want to go up in size about 20% or so and mostly made in North America unlike some of the others.
Hm, y’all are making me feel like a greedy bottom feeder, like I’m trying to get a car for “nothing”. . . “Hey, I resemble that remark!” 
But let’s look at it this way, dealers advertise deceptively like no other product. The so-called “MSRP” is nowhere near what you’re going to actually pay when all is said and done.
When you go to the grocery store, or a big box store, or a mall store and buy stuff, you don’t have to pay a surcharge for what it cost the store to bring the product from the distribution center to the store, or an administrative surcharge to pay for the back office staff. Its all included in the price of the stuff. Add local sales tax (if applicable) and you’re done.
When I mention “out-the-door” price I’m referring to how much money has to leave my possession in order for me to drive away free-and-clear of the dealership, i.e. no one’s going to come around and take the car back if I don’t pay more money next month or ever in the future (excepting recurring gov’t taxes / fees of course)
EVERY car I see advertised at ANY dealership in my state ALWAYS includes the asterisk (not including $300 dealer processing fee - not required by state law) That catchphrase “not required by state law” is ALWAYS present. Why? If its “Not Required” by State Law, then I shouldn’t be paying it.
Another one is, $695 “Advertising Fee” W.T.F? Walmart doesn’t do this. (Oh yeah, here’s a surcharge to pay for last Sunday’s circular - - NO, they don’t DO that!)
Then of course $895 “Destination” Charge. Well, where is the car NOW? Maybe its cheaper for me to buy a bus ticket and go get it myself.
Then the dealers advertising what appears to be a reasonable price, and down at the bottom, in type so small you almost need an electron microscope to read it - All Prices AFTER Your $1,500 (or $2,000/$4,000/$6,000) Cash Down Or Trade. I’m expecting some dealer to advertise new cars for just ONE DOLLAR - after your $22,994 cash down or trade.
Then the rotating categories of rebates you may or may not qualify for. This month its for military, next month its for police & firefighters. This month its owner loyalty, next month its for “owners of competitive vehicles”. “College Graduate” rebate. So I don’t have a college degree; you’re telling me you don’t want my business?
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t begrudge the military or police / firefighters etc for getting a discount - not one bit - my beef is with the dealer advertising a price that includes multiple rebates they know 90 - 99 % of everyone who will read the ad won’t qualify for - its deceptive.
By comparison, if I call someone like @cwatkin for service and he tells me upfront there’s a charge of $‘X’ to show up, I can accept or reject that and it is fair. The dealership version would be to tell me he’ll show up for $10, then when he arrives, "Oh, there’s a $3 fee for each red light I stopped at, a fuel surcharge, 75 cents for the air dispenser for my tires, an extra $25 if you don’t have a degree or certification which has nothing to do with our transaction, and a special fee to help me pay for my secretary.
Buying a car from a car salesperson is like playing that game with the pea and the 3 shells with a street hustler in some back alley. You KNOW the game is rigged.
I forgot to mention that I have been driving the Metro for the last week or so and haven’t put many miles on the new Mirage since that time. I had some jobs picking up some NASTY electronics such as one location where cigarette tar is literally creeping down the walls in little streams/drips. I cough just having this stuff in the car with me so didn’t want to use the new car for that.
Yes, I hate the mind games dealers play. The Mitsubishi dealer I used doesn’t do that crap which I liked. The Kia place was all about this so we said “see ya”. It was all mind games and trying to get us to get a car that day.
@kmccune “I avoid buffets as a rule” I can respect that. My mother always said she lost her appetite at the buffet watching all those 400 & 500 pound people waddling up to the buffet line. And, yeah, when you see a little kid take his finger out of his nose and stick it in the chocolate fountain, that tends to discourage me from partaking in said fountain.
As far as the Chinese Buffets, I notice a pattern - when a new one opens, the food & service tend to be really good, and of course the seats are firm, the decor fresh - as time goes by the quality of the food tends to decline - eventually a new, bigger & better buffet will open up nearby, and the old one eventually closes. Now I don’t know if these are really family owned businesses or they’re all owned by the same Asian ‘Tung’ or however its spelled . . . .
Truthfully, as I age and I have to pay more & more attention to my health, I don’t really go as often as I used to, but it is a guilty pleasure of mine. I like yummy things, and I love a bargain. Nowadays, when I’m on the road and I get hungry I’ll ask my GPS for a nearby buffet, if the place looks sketchy I’ll ask for another one, if it looks nice I’ll go in and spring for dinner.
Back to the topic at hand, yeah, I’m interested in the Mirage because its a bargain right now. It was off my list due to the very low CR score and the poor crash test rating. The FIRST time @cwatkin was talking up the Mirage (when his GF bought one) I thought, well, I’ll at least take a look at it when I go to the auto show, but Mitsubishi didn’t even have a display at the auto show, and believe me, I looked for them, they weren’t there. So I thought to myself, well, if they couldn’t even be bothered to show up at the auto show, maybe they are getting ready to leave the US market.
Then he came back with this thread. Sooooo. . . . yeah, at MSRP or something close to it I’m not interested. Its only maybe 1 or 2 thousand less than the Fit, which is a superior car in most every way. But, for a $7,000 savings? You Have My Attention!
But its all about compromises and how many you’re willing to make to save how much money. If I spring for the Fit I shouldn’t have to compromise on anything. Color and transmission, as the base model has all the features I want and then some.
If I settle for the Mirage, well, the seats aren’t as nice, the interior materials aren’t as nice, there’s less room in the back, less power (albeit better m.p.g.) there’s that crash test thing, which nags at me, I most likely won’t be able to get the color I want, and I might have to forego cruise control and the 6 way adjustable seat. (Setting aside for now my issue with the “crunchy” shifter*). THEREFORE the price needs to compensate me for accepting these compromises. Its not that I’m trying to get the dealer to give me the car for ‘nothing’ - its that the dealer needs to make me an offer I’d be a fool to walk away from, to entice me to make these compromises.
Must be a time-lag or something, I’m seeing your posts after I posted my comment. But yeah, the speedometer cable. On my Festiva, this is the only entry to the transmission for checking/adding/changing fluid. There is no drain plug. This has been a huge inconvenience, but again, designed as a ‘throwaway’ car. . .
A colleague has an older, auto Fit. He says an indicator light comes on when its time to change trans fluid and he drops it off at dealer. . . that’s all he knows.
They don’t mention things like drain plugs in the promotional materials, wonder why? /sarcasm. OR - they tell you you don’t need a drain plug because the fluid is supposed to last the life of the vehicle, (uh-oh). I did check to verify the Mirage has an actual spare tire as opposed to a can of fix-a-flat and a 1-800-SOS-ORRY # to call . . .
Mind games, yeah not too happy with the Honda dealer. Not so much the mind games 'cause I didn’t let him do that, but he was darn well determined he was going to sell me a car ‘on-the-spot’. The Mitz dealer, quite the opposite, I’d say he was almost as nonchalant as a Walmart employee associate as to whether I buy a car from him. That strikes me as odd also.
Off topic but funny: Reading some “Yelp” reviews of Golden Corral or places like it is usually quite funny. . .
I guess the offset frontal crash is the rating they don’t like. The required ratings for sale in the US are all 4 and 5 star so that is interesting it isn’t good at this one rating. I guess side impact is really good on these for some reason. Anyway, with how I see people driving, this is probably the most common crash these days with all the idiots texting and running lights, etc. Someone ran a light 10 seconds after it turned green. I was in the Geo and hit the brakes, killing the engine because I didn’t have time to hit the clutch too or wasn’t thinking about it. I figured if they had hit the Geo, I would have at least gotten it paid for through their insurance but then figured these people probably don’t have insurance. It seems driving is getting worse by the day around here and am sure it is that way all over.
Then there is the fact that this is a new car. I am sure the safety is WAY better than what would have been a good car just a few years ago. It is certainly better than a Festiva or Metro!
The buffet place I am talking about gets terrible online reviews. Yes, lots of BIG BIG BIG people eating there and nasty food!
A lady I used to work for now owns a grocery store in my area ,its almost the only game in town and she has never heard of a "loss leader " apparently to bring extra business in.She charges 10 cents a gallon extra on E10 to use a credit or debit card so even though her gas is oftimes cheaper ,I end up saving money by buying gas thats a little higher at other stores,that dont charge a BS fee on credit gas purchases(I have checked and she makes money on her surcharges ) she told me to buy elsewhere if I didnt like and I told her I would without reservation if I was in their neighborhoods ,I even buy from them usually if the prices match after the surcharge.I try not to reward BS (the same problem I had with the sorta local Honda dealer on used vehicles,I told the saleslady ,if I were to pay new prices ,I would simply buy new)
In my neck of the woods, ALL of the gas stations charge about 10 cents/gallon more to use the debit/credit card
I pay cash for my gas, so it’s not an issue for me
They are making money on the fees then,the fees that are generally charged by the credit card companies generally run about 3% ,my afore mentioned lady friend charges only 4 cents a gallon extra on premium and diesel, not the 10 cent surcharge on the E 10 .( A side note it seems a lot of the Ford Eco boost owners run regular E10 in their vehicles ,why pay the extra cost for the Ecoboost engine? Most Nissan supercharged V6 owners run regular too,why pay a premium price for a premium engine ,then cheap out on the fuel ?)
“In my neck of the woods, ALL of the gas stations charge about 10 cents/gallon more to use the debit/credit card.”
Really?
I estimate that about 25-30% of the stations in my area charge extra for the use of a credit card. So, unless someone is unwise enough to run his gas tank down to a really low level, there is almost always a station available where one isn’t penalized for the use of a credit card.
I have a friend (that female tailgater, Carol) who says that she saves money by paying cash for her gas–as well as virtually everything else. Then I pointed out to her that she drives to an ATM a couple of times each week in order to replenish her cash supply, thereby using more gas and–in effect–spending more money that way. She just gave me a blank stare.
At the other end of the business model spectrum is Costco, where the only form of payment that they don’t accept for gas is…cash! That is where I buy my gas about 90% of the time, and in the process I am getting Top Tier gas, I am paying a few cents a gallon less than any of the other stations in the area, and I am earning a cash-back bonus on my credit card. Ergo, a win-win-win for me.
I usually buy gas at Shell stations. The don’t charge a credit card fee in Central MD. The Exxon/Mobil stations near me don’t do it either.
On a slightly different subject, diesel fuel is a penny less than regular E10. A few months ago, diesel was more expensive that premium.
If they are not charging extra for credit, it means they have built in the extra charge in the price, maybe not ten cents but something. All this does is screws the cash payer.
There is a big argument/discussion on this practice in all businesses. The poor who notoriously don’t have access to credit and pay with cash end up subsidizing the better off who pay with credit and use the miles or cash back.
As a matter of disclosure, I have to say that I use credit for the most part, mostly because of the convenience, but still aware of the flawed system.
It’s not terribly convenient for me to get gas at Costco . . . the lines are always very long. My time is worth something
It’s also considerably out of the way, if I was thinking of getting gas on the way to work, or on the way home
“It’s not terribly convenient for me to get gas at Costco . . . the lines are always very long. My time is worth something.”
I guess I am lucky that my closest Costco gas station is across the road from the Shell station that I used to patronize before they opened that Costco. I agree that the lines are long on weekends, but because I am retired, I make sure that I do my weekly Costco run on a weekday afternoon, when the lines are short.
Usually there are no more than 2 cars ahead of me, but last week when I pulled in, there was nobody waiting in one of the lines, so I was able to pull right up to the pump, and I was out of there w/in 5 minutes with my cut-rate gas. After gassing-up, then I do some shopping in the store while grazing on the free food samples.
I would love to fill up at Costco, and get top-tier gasoline at a low price, but as I said, it’s simply not convenient for me
Looking to save 20 cents a gallon would save me $1.00 per week. I’m sure if I spent more on gas I would keep an eye on gas prices better, though I use mid grade I avoid the top tier stations that mark it up 50c a gallon vs 20 to 30.