That’s not true. Criminal negligence charges (of which negligent homicide is one) are entirely based on the idea that the perpetrator didn’t intend to do it, but his behavior was such a departure from what an ordinarily prudent person would do that it requires an indifference to consequences.
Put another way, there isn’t a drunk driver on the planet that means to kill anyone on the way home from the bar, but getting wasted and choosing to drive is an act that disregards the obvious potential consequences to such a degree as to be criminal in itself, and therefore should be punished.
I suspect based on your “systems parents develop” comment that you and I might be coming at this from similar ground. Yes, there absolutely are systems that reasonably prudent parents develop. My stance is that when parents decline to be reasonably prudent and kids die as a result, it’s criminal negligence. If we decline to punish them because “they didn’t mean to do it,” then that should reasonably extend to other crimes, like DUI killings, or kids getting hurt on shoddy amusement park rides (well I had no intention of hurting a kid when I decided to put off necessary repairs to that roller coaster!).
There was a case about 10 years ago of a Mother at Foxwoods Casino that left her kids in a hot car while she was inside feeding her gambling addiction. One of the kids died, and one had permanent brain damage. The woman was extremely distraught…I also think she should be punished for her actions. Each of these cases should be looked at individually to determine criminal prosecution.
Yep, I agree. The cases have to be looked at individually. It may be difficult to discern neglect vs absent mindedness (or however we want to phrase it) though in a lot of instances. Some (like the woman gambling) should certainly be prosecuted.
It may have already been discussed and I missed it, but I wonder if this happens more frequently now than it did 20 or 30 years ago, or if we just hear about it more now due to more media coverage.
We try the warning system such as the bill mentioned in the original post mandates, such as some cars have. We then monitor the results and continue to fund research into alternatives, same as we do for all sorts of matters we want to improve.
I am unmoved by the story and I’m just expressing my personal opinion is all.
As a matter of fact, I do not believe for one second that all of these people forget their kids. I think they know full well they’re leaving them in the car and going on a misguided assumption that things will be fine. Gone 5 minutes turns into 2 hours before you know it…
As for the “forgot” part, I think that is a near panic, knee jerk reaction, self preservation comment made by the errant parent when confronted by the authorities about their dead, just fine, or somewhere in the middle child.
It’s the same thing as Jr. not turning in his homework. Knowing damned well he didn’t do it to begin with his standard answer when asked is “I forgot”.
Regarding casinos, a grandmother took her 5 year old grandson along to the casino. He was left in the car for 6 hours and died. Grandma came out, found him, and waited 15 minutes to call 911. At this point rigor mortis had already set in. She “forgot”…
So we’re to believe a 5 year old didn’t make a sound all the way to the casino and he never crossed granny’s mind the entire 6 hours except for the 15 minutes she spent trying to figure a way out of her predicament. I have zero sympathy for her. She should be in prison the rest of her life.
Again, just my 2 cents.
I guess my only take is that we take every bad thing that happens and then we try to pass laws and invent devices to prevent those bad things from happening again. How smug some of these folks must feel for coming up with these solutions. I sometimes think it is the old spec in the eye versus the log. It makes us feel good to come up with this stuff. In our little town we just passed out 1300 school supply back packs for kids whose parents could not afford school supplies. Some of these kids are homeless or living with relatives because the parent from a broken home are in jail. What about these kids? Is there a law or electronic device that we can come up with to provide stable homes for these kids? If we drill down to the real issues that help create these conditions we have fostered over the past 20-30 years, it is something that cannot be discussed in the open anymore. Identification of the problem is 90% of the solution.
Back to cars I guess, or bikes or trains or buses.
Is it possible that a warning system will prick their consciences? Is it likely that a court will punish them more certainly and/or severely if it knows they ignored an alarm?
Attacking the framers of the law is irrelevant.
Just because we can’t do everything doesn’t mean we can’t do anything.
+1
The argument that a specific law/regulation is useless unless it is 100% effective is ludicrous.
If we were to only permit laws/regulations that are 100% effective, we would have no laws or regulations, and that would result in a state of anarchy.
You know, the funny thing about that link is that I started to read it. And then I grinned and decided to find an article about criminal culpability in the event of negligence from the same author and link it for you. But then I scrolled farther and… It’s right there in the article you linked.
No, negligent homicide is not considered as serious a crime as first degree murder, which is why the sentencing guidelines are much less harsh. But it is nonetheless an actual crime, even absent mens rea, as that article confirms.
Homicide is one of the most misunderstood words due to the TV shows going back to Perry Mason. If there was a suspected murder the ‘homicide’ detectives were brought in. Which was correct. Homicide is the death of a human caused by another human. There are many levels. I will try to list them from worst to least from my law enforcement training from 1972/1973. First degree murder: Pre- Meditated. Second degree murder: Impulsive. Negligent Homicide: 100% preventable. DUI, Reckless Driving. Manslaughter: Lesser degree of negligent homicide. Justifiable: Usually self defense requires a judicial hearing to require justification. I have an urban legend that I still like. A waitress in Texas noticed a male customer who kept looking at her. Just before closing he paid his bill, left a tip and left the restaurant. She walked 2 or 3 blocks to her apartment and went to bed. The questionable customer suddenly appeared at the foot of her bed and jumped on her! Somehow she managed to grab her .357 magnum revolver from the nightstand and shot the assailant 6 times rendering him very dead. During her required judicial homicide hearing the assistant DA asked “Why she felt a need to shoot the assailant 6 times”? She answered: “Because when I pulled the trigger the seventh time it just went click”! A homicide determined to be Accidental: Normally results in no charges unless some degree of negligence is suspected.
I just remembered a story Pete Wilson, former governor of California, told about a job he had parking cars at Santa Anita race track when he was in college. A guy left him a car to park with 2 children in it. He refused.
Let me put it thisa way… We currently have vehicles that Park themselves, Drive Themselves, Brake in an emergency, follow at a safe distance when in cruise control…etc… ALL without ANY OF US ASKING FOR THAT TECH… Is it hard to imagine that a few heat and motion sensors cannot be integrated into the system to blow the horn, light the lights and roll down the windows at the very least?
Modern vehicles could also even send an alert to everyone in your call list… or send a msg to everyone you know that the temp and motion cabin sensor has been tripped… It could even send a 5-10 sec video… it could even allow you to talk to the occupant. This is all off the top of my head using current well established tech…right now.
I’m never one to raise my hand for what some would consider “Nanny Tech” but… these are helpless babies here put in harms way due to whatever circumstances were in play, that day, at that time, in that persons life…
None of us know what kind of battles the next man or woman is facing and fighting at any given time, so if we have the ability and this is a real issue… It really is a no brainer and very very low tech compared to the items I already mentioned… Hell your smart phone could run the program whilst you are on the internet and talking on the phone at the same time without breaking a sweat.
It would be very very simple to add this feature… Let me know, do I need to invent something?
Tesla’s made some strides here. They have a cabin overheat prevention system that flips on the AC if the interior temp gets to 105. And they have a user-triggerable dog mode that will keep the cabin at whatever temperature is set. It wouldn’t be hard to tie that to the already-installed occupancy sensor (motion sensors that look for movement in the cabin) to automatically cool the cabin to a comfortable temperature if motion is detected.
I could see why manufactures shy away from this technology. Once safety features are installed, these same people will leave their kids or pets in the car, and the system fails. Watch the lawsuits go crazy.
Back to the evolutionary principle of if you don’t use it you lose it. Self-driving, forget how to drive, self-braking, self-parking, computer watching out for kids? I dunno, maybe just go back to putting them in the front seat but turn the dang air bag off since that’s what started all this. Oh and people insist on all these protective measures when the real issue is to AVOID CRASHES not be protected when you have one.
I’ve done a GREAT job of not causing a crash. The problem is the other guy. I’ve been rear-ended 3 times in the past 30 years while stopped at a red-light waiting for it to turn green.
