No dispute, I’d prefer a mechanic who charges me the estimated fixed amount to repair the problem, no matter how long it takes, and how many parts it takes. But I wouldn’t hold the mechanic to that, as long as they used the normally expected methods and diagnostics, same as most pro’s would do. Then, if the repair didn’t take, I’d not complain to have to pay for the extra labor and parts. I expect you are saying there’s fewer ambiguities in car repair than in medicine, so a mechanic should be held to their estimate more. Seems reasonable.
I had a customer come in one time with an AZ code sheet print out and said they needed these 2 parts replaced, I said we have to preform a proper diag 1st, customer kept saying AZ already did one, I had to explain the difference… Finally I priced out what they and AZ said the problem was, it was over $800 in parts and labor, we charged $99 for a diag… They finally agreed to pay the diag… Tech found a vacuum hose issue and repaired it pretty fast, so no extra charge for the simple repair that only cost the customer $99 vs what the customer said was wrong at over $800… BUT the tech HAD to preform a diag to find the issue and basically repair the vacuum hose/line to finish the diag and to confirm the repair… IF the customer would have went off a guess or even I went off the guess it would have cost the customer a lot more… The most common repair was the 2 parts, so that is what an experienced tech would have “guessed” also, but a lot of times there are many different reasons why the CEL code is set, and it takes time to check it out…
Another great example is the Jeep 3.6L with internal issues that sets misfire codes (P030X), and everyone wanted to and some still do, want to throw plugs and a coil if not all 6 coils at it when it is an internal issue that requires a diag to find… I mean, it’s a misfire what else could it be? Just needs a “tune up” right?? WRONG!!! lol… But it is not always an internal issue, so what to do, what to do??
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I guess if I were a pro mechanic and I wasn’t sure, I’d just tell the customer that while my guess is the problem is X, it could also be Y, or Z, or somethng else. And if they still want me to help , I’m happy to start with the X theory , but they’ll still have to pay for X even if it doesn’t do the trick , and I can’t guarantee the result. The customer has the option to seek help elsewhere.
Compression test… lol
If the coil cost is $100 each (with mark up some are $150-$200+ each) and you replace all 6 that is $600 (+) not counting spark plugs and labor… I don’t know about y’all, but $600 is a lot of money just to guess at something…
DO the freaking Diag…
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Ok, no dispute, but thought it was a rhetorical question … lol… I’m sort of thinking the Jeep condundrum isn’t so much the product is more problematic than other makes, but they are harder to diy’er repair for some reason. Maybe need special tooling or diagnostic equipment diy’er don’t have access to.
I’m not sure what your argument is here.
Are you arguing a bad mechanic/roofer or are you arguing quote/diagnostics? Because that’s what my original argument was about - the free glance over diagnostics by a good mechanic when a customer brings in their car for a first time before a “real” costly diagnostics is performed.
Personally, I wouldn’t recommend that approach for car owners. Folks need to pay their bills, so can’t afford to give their time away for free. Better to find a good shop, then just tell them the problem. What does it do you don’t want it to do? Or what doesn’t it do you do want it to do. Then treat the shop well, so they want to retain you as a customer for the long-term. That’s aboue the best a car owner can do.
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This is not about a DIYer doing the work and or check out, it is about a shop doing free work or not, and even worse is a DIYer asking for free info from a pro shop and then DIY at home, then it was a total waste of time for the shop… If time is money, and it is, then they free advise cost the shop money… lol
This is the original description of the problem. It does not seem to be something that a tech will be able to pop the hood, glance at the engine, and say ‘Aha, that’s the problem’. There is no reason to expect a free diagnosis for a problem like this, especially from a dealer.
I paid my Lincoln dealer $120 the last time I had a problem diagnosed and did not use them. Had I used them it would have been applied to the bill.
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sign I just don’t understand what the issue is here. If a mechanic wants to actually make a living fixing cars, they don’t have a choice by to give up a little bit of their time(we’re asking for 5-10minutes here) to do a simple diagnose before putting in a real work order.
Mechanics are not doctors they shouldn’t be acting like their time is worth so much money.
The actual mechanics here say you’re wrong.
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Not all mechanics work the same.
And I’m wrong about what? I never argued wrongness or correctness. I argued how one is conducting business.
I expect some mechanics would do that, but I wouldn’t recommend using those mechanics for your auto repair and maintenance work myself. If you want a mechanic to spend 10 minutes looking at your car and offering up an opinion taking another 5 minutes , just offer to pay him 1/4 of his hourly rate. Then don’t insist he do more or spend more time. Wouldn’t cost that much.
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He has to input his expertise so that you(as a potential client) can get a general picture of the problem. Then you as a client can think it over and shop around.
The mechanic has to sell a job and win it. Clients shop around for good prices. There’s price competitions and expertise on a subject to consider here.
OK great, so a mechanic can get multiple diags a day, since they should be free 10 minute inspections and if they have 6, that is an hour… A flat rate tech gets paid by the 1/10 (tenth) 1 tenth is 6 minutes, 2 tenths is 12 minutes 0.3 is 18 minutes and so on…
So I ask you tomorrow when you start work to not clock in for 1 hour, but you have to be working that free hour… and then do it the rest of the week, now do it all next week, remember that if you ask a tech that could easily have and pay for themselves over $50,000 in tools, that you are asking them to do something that I doubt you are willing to work for one hour a day for free and you didn’t have to pay for your own equipment or very little compared, to do your job…
If YOUR boss ask you to work for free, he/she is ripping you off as well as there are Laws against it…
Ok so say 6 clients come in a day with free 10 minute diag each. 1 or 2 of those jobs can generate the shop a few grand in profit and the others a few hundred. As opposed to what? No job at all? Absolutely ridiculous argument. Mind you, this is a Lincoln dealership that works exclusively on Lincolns, not Lexus, not Ferraris - LINCOLNS. Their product knowledge should be ON POINT, if its not, I don’t know what youre doing back there.
Its a no brainer so stop acting like your time is holy and mighty. Its not the clients fault you invested all that money into the “best of the best” tools to do everything. Thats on YOU.
Again, I don’t work for a shop so I’m only speaking from the outside. But from this pov, the business conduct seems very sus. I’ve worked jobs where we had to deal with “walk ins” daily and almost never had an issue with work orders and sceduling because we adjust to the volume of clients and their needs. But never do we charge a customer just for hearing them out for a few minutes. And this was also commission based.
That is what you fail to understand, it generally takes longer to do that… You can’t do a proper brake inspection in 10 minutes when you know the brakes are grinding, you (if not to bad) need to test drive to confirm complaint, and feel or brake pulsation, you still have to rack and raise the vehicle, fight with wheel locks if present, remove all 4 wheels, inspect and measure all 4 corners pad/shoes, measure rotor/drum thickness, check to see if in spec or not (not counting checking for run out with a dial indicator if done or needed), check all hoses for cracks and or dry rot, check master cylinder for fluid level and if contaminated and or leaking, compress calipers to feel for how they compress and to make sure compress 100%, if rear e-brake calipers then they are screw on and takes special tool and more time, if electronic parking brake calipers, then that is a whole nother issue, if rear drums, have to beat them off with out damaging most of the time, check wheel cylinders dust boots for inner seal seepage, inspect that nothing is broke and or missing, and I am probably missing a few things,
Now, you can short cut those things and guess and or hope that is all is wrong with it, but I promise you if I give you an estimated price for pads and resurface rotors and you say ok cause that is all the money you have, and once I start, I find a caliper(s) is not compressing and your rotors are under spec and require replacing and now you went from a $159 special to now over $600, you are going too be crazy mad… A cheap proper inspection would have been much better…
Brake jobs and diags probably have the biggest comeback rate for a shop, brakes still make noise, CEL came back on, unless properly inspected/diagnosed, and then you still have some…
And that is only brakes, one of the easier and 1st things a new mechanic does as a pro, after doing oil changes and tire related stuff… The only reason a shop does a free brake inspection is to draw in new customers, but I have worked at multiple shops that would do free brake inspections from time to time, but it took away from the paying jobs and you will find out, someone looking for free stuff is probably just wanting to know what is wrong so they can DIY, if someone is NOT wiling to pay for an inspection then most of the time they are NOT willing to pay for the work needed to be done, being cheap is being cheap… This has been tested over 17 years anywhere from 20+ yo worn out vehicles and small and or cheap housing shop locations to very high end newer vehicles and very expensive housing shop locations… Again, each bay makes you money or cost you money…
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no such thing as “10 minute diagnosis”
Mechanic gets told to look at car
Gets key off the board
Goes in the back lot to find the car
Brings car back to his stall
Raises the car
Looks at it and enters notes into the system
Makes an estimate, which includes parts and labor
Puts car back down
Parks car in back
Returns key to board
Submits estimate to service writer
Money aside . . . no way in HECK this is only taking 10 minutes
Brother, you’ve got a LOT to learn about how the world of professional auto mechanics works
btw . . . when a shop starts telling/asking their mechanics to perform free inspections, diagnostics, etc. . . . that’s when the good mechanics with a healthy sense of self-worth start to look for a better place to work, imo
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This here is absolutely wrong. Anyone who needs to work for free (for any amount of time) to make a living needs to examine the choices tney made. How many burgers does the fry cook need to make before he can clock in and start getting paid? How many shingles should a roofer nail before he starts getting paid? How many temperatures should a nurse take before getting paid?
You seem to have a problem with paying a mechanic to inspect a car, but not doing $600 worth of work that the car didn’t need. I don’t get that.
In George’s doctor example, a lax dr will juat say here, try this medicine. A professional would do a chest x-ray, throat swab to check for strep, etc.
Tick tock. Time is relentless. Every minute that you’re not billing time is a dollar gone forever. I can’t afford very many lost minutes.
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Or,
- customer pulls up
- greeted by service manager
- potential client tells service manager there is an oil leak but don’t know where
- service manager seen this issue with this model before but can’t be 100%
- service manager sets up appointment with client for another day.
- service manager tells client there is a $100 diag fee if it isn’t the usual suspect in leak
- client agrees
All of that takes less than 5 minutes.
- Client comes back on sceduled service day.
- mechanic finds the suspected leak to be so by a visual check. Does not charge $100 diag fee
- (in order cases, diag fee has to be issued to confirm defective part %100)
- mechanic puts in a service order
- client accepts.
Everyone is happy.