How do 2002 Sienna motors fail?

General Discussion
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MarkM, I believe NAFTA treaty mandates Mexico opens the car import market by maybe 2020, though I don’t remember the year exactly.

In the meantime, they are allowed to restrict imports of used cars to protect their own used car market. And, your lack of understanding doesn’t make it silly.

My 2002 Sienna with 203,000 miles on it, and not in perfect condition would bring what in the USA? Maybe $2000 if I was lucky. Since it looks relatively good, and runs out okay, it would bring much more than that here.

Yes, to open up the used car market would destroy the used car market in Mexico. Although I expect the used car market will drop in Mexico, and raise in the USA.

I do not expect permanent importation of Mexican cars to the USA which do not meet our safety certification. It is going to be one way, unless Mexico decides to comply and that seems unlikely.

For some years, small pickups over ten years old have been allowed for import if used for agricultural purposes. Ford Rangers are very popular for this. A few years ago, my BIL wanted one. I looked and ten year old Rangers were priced out of sight as far north as Oklahoma. The price increased to the selling price in Mexico. Ten year old Rangers were actually selling higher than newer ones!

Men coming back from Chicago or Madison brought back Rangers with them, because that far north the price was where it should be for a pickup of that poor reliability. And, here all the parts, even body parts like light sockets and turn signal parts are all available. And, body repairs here are very modestly priced. Once you get a Ranger, you have one almost forever if it doesn’t get crumpled into a ball.

But, most of the importation changes actually made it easier to PERMANENTLY import a late model car, but only for those with permanent residence. In the past, immigration rules allowed foreigners to come and live here, with their American car, almost forever. No requirement for the imported car to meet smog rules.

The legislators decided that wasn’t fair, as harsh as the smog rules are for Mexican cars. And, I agree, even if it may force me to buy another car. Fair is fair.

So, only the few people who will be qualified, like me, for temporary residence will be allowed to temporarily import American cars. Everyone else has to buy a Mexican car, or import permanently a late model American car.

The big change which is OT for this board, is the changes in immigration laws. Even as the Mexican government complained about the US treatment of illegals, Mexican law actually permitted Mexicans, even the police, to rape and murder their own illegals. The Constitution prohibited prosecution for any crime against an illegal. Now, any person with any immigration status has full civil rights, even to marriage and other things similar.

The legislators admit they passed the laws they wish the US had. If you are a Mexican, or even a permanent resident, you can import your own parents; any offspring unmarried no matter the age; your concubino/as (civil partners); and maybe more.

They did dramatically raise the income requirement and some long term residents will be forced to go to the border every 180 days for a new tourist permit. I am talking nearly 2000 dollars a month for temporary resident. One attorney insists that for family members like me the requirement is only $500 a month. I will see.

They also now permit large savings and investment accounts to cover the income requirement, but I think it’s like well over $100,000 and that has to be money, not real estate nor stocks. They are still trying to figure it out, like our Obamacare.

Under the new rules, as a family member, I could be applying for citizenship within maybe 4 or 5 years.

Being an undocumented is no longer a crime. If you get caught, you or someone who is willing to help can pay the fine and you go to wherever home is, not to prison.

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@meanjoe75fan: >>Regarding your legal situation…do you know for a fact that you can’t “cobble together” a workaround to the new law? (Or a new change in your legal status that changes which laws apply…didn’t quite figure out which is operative.)

Both things are true. No, I cannot cobble up a workaround. Mexico is trying very hard to reduce corruption little by little. If I paid, the next cop would also have to be paid. And, I would never get the car by the border people if I drove it to the USA.

Also, yes, it is the change in my legal status that changes which laws apply.

We do like our car very much. If I didn’t, I would bail right now and buy a Mexican car. Probably a used Sienna a bit newer with a few less miles on it, for around $8000. We will try to hang on until I make a decision on becoming a Mexican citizen. Or can’t drive any more…

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If you did try to get around the law, you’d probably end up in jail. And whether you did or not, you’d become a part of the problem rather than a part of the solution.

Stay honest. Even if it means a new vehicle.

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My normal viewpoint, TSM.

The only real mordida I have ever paid, other than a valid traffic stop, was when the appraisers came to appraise our house for taxes, a cousin asked for some money to take with him when he talked to the appraiser. What he sought was a sharp increase in our tax valuation, because I told him I wanted maximum evaluation and was willing to pay for it. I don’t feel guilty about paying more taxes to achieve a goal.

There is someone who has wanted the town to confiscate our private road, so in his words he can do with it whatever he wants. So, our taxes were raised to $150 dollars USD a year by this maneuver. My wife was pretty hot when she found out what I had done. Taxes before the new appraisal were around $20 a year for 1.2 acres of prime urban building land, plus a house.

He appraised it at around $3 a square foot, which is actually what land sells for in this poor Third World village, as incredible as that sounds. The problem is, almost no land is for sale, ever. A typical building lot may be 2,500 square feet, with a 1,000 square foot house on it. But, no one wants to sell.

It is not likely they will condemn our street, since we let everyone pass free, anyway. But, if they do, they will be paying us $3 a square foot, and the street would be 5600 square feet. That is a lot of money for this poor village.

Usually, people pay bribes to reduce evaluation, so I don’t feel a lot of guilt. When you live in another culture, you try to use the culture to help you, while not being dishonest about it. And, in this case to defeat someone trying to screw over us, by increasing the taxes I pay simply does not induce guilt in my soul.

When we die, there will probably be 15 or more houses built on this 60,000 square foot lot that now has only one.

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@IR,strange as it seems some of my best friends in the “joint” were of Hispanic persuasion as a rule they were amazed how easy it was to get thrown in prison here(a lot of Guys were headed back home ASAP) now I’m cognizant of the horrid state of the Judical system and prisons in Mexico,byt this seems to indicate to me,that we have no bragging rights about our Penal system and that the way of life in Meso-America and Mexico doesnt necessarly have to be squalid and horrible.
One Guy from the Dominican Republic told me at least your property belongs to you-Kevin

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There are many cultural differences in Mexico, not only in the driving area, but also in the prison system.

In Mexico, if a man commits murder, and disappears for say 20 years, when they arrest him, a judge will examine his record for that 20 years. If he conducted himself as a model citizen, the judge rules he has been rehabilitated and he does not get sent to prison for the rest of his life as he would in the US. The Mexican penal system believes in rehabilitation as its number one priority. Which is also why they do not believe in capital punishment.

However, not long ago, they tired of kidnappers killing people who can’t pay extreme ransom demands. They do now put them in prison for life if they kill someone. There was a local gang of kidnappers who kidnapped a poor lad who had no money but his taxi for which he owed most of it. Their first demand was like $100,000, which was insane. So, the family ignored instructions not to call the police. They had called via a cell phone, and the phone company was able to supply the towers hit and they nailed them, after a high speed chase involving a collision with a semi truck. The 25 year old confessed, not only that they had kidnapped the young lad, but also that they had killed others who could not pay. So, they all will spend the rest of their life behind bars.

My friend who is a retired police official said they do not torture them these days. They may have told the kid that someone else confessed and thus got him to spill the beans.

Another difference is connubial visits. They simply do not have the extreme violent abuse between men here. If you are in the Centro on the right day of the week, at the right hour, there is a special woman’s bus taking “wives” to the State prison thirty minutes away. A cousin says there are also husband visits for women in prison. They lock up men and women, but they do not also take away their humanity, and they do not totally destroy the family structure.

A returned worker told me a year or two ago they quickly learned in the USA you could get tossed in jail for things they didn’t even know were wrong. He used the humorous example of coughing without a permit, or something silly like that.

One big driving difference is the two second rule at stop signs. A niece’s Italian husband got nailed not too long ago. He had lived and drove here for years, and no one ever told him the two second stop rule. A cop taught it to him at great expense.

Interestingly, most Mexicans are unaware of the two second rule. I read about it in the Guia Roji Driving manual, which I recommend for anyone who drives in Mexico. But, it only works if you can read Spanish.

UPDATE: As I was writing this on an editor, someone knocked timidly at the door. I went. It was the Lovely Gabriela (in Spanish I call her, but not to her face, La Hermosa, which means more or less, THE beauty, not A beauty, you’d have to see her to fully understand, heh, heh) and her father.

They have in Mexico the tenencia. It was a tax on new cars, allegedly started as a temporary tax in the 1960’s, to fund the Olympics. And, they somehow forgot to cancel it after the Olympics were paid off. [/sarcasm] The first year on a new car, you owe ten percent of the purchase price, the next year, 9%, then 8%, until it disappears, for a total of 55% tax over the tenencia years.

A few years ago, they announced they were planning on stopping the tenencia on new cars, because it harmed the Mexican new car market as you can imagine. And, until it is paid, the car is harder to sell. This also interacts with the need to control used car imports. Let me add that if a person imports permanently a car from the US, they will have to pay the tenencia, but I don’t know if it is the full 55% or just based on its age compared to the ten years when you import it.

But, older vehicles are still subject to it. The Lovely Gabriela’s father bought a 1985 Ford F-150 pick-up 17 years ago, which would have been, um, around 1997 when it was 12 years old, right?

And, it sat without tires for five years until he got kids old enough to start earning money to let him use a bit of his own money to fix that pickup.

When he went for license plates the records showed that 8000 pesos of tenencia (around $615 USD) were unpaid. So, he asked to borrow the 8000 pesos for three months. He has always repaid me.

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Amazing differences in culture,the prison system in VA wont even let them have anything to clean the black mold off the bathroom walls(could be tossed on a CO,I suppose ,in VA the weak inmates prey on the people that shouldnt be in there (VA myth-Reentry- you have a felony on your record,try to get a job){If there werent so many dang laws,there wouldnt be so many law breakers-Wakeup America!}-Kevin