How do 2002 Sienna motors fail?

General Discussion
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21

Wow! What a great thread! The general consensus was, anything can happen at any time,which I knew, but usually it is gradual deterioration which will be obvious if you are alert.

I have thought of getting a new(er) car, but at this time the cost would be unpleasant. And, my wife would not understand. She tells me from time to time how badly I have treated the car, and how it would be as good as new if I took care of it. This, a 12 year old car with over 200,000 miles, much of it on rural Mexican roads. Hee, hee.

Her cousin tells me it is actually in great shape. He keeps asking me to give it to him, though laws do not allow that.

I will probably keep on top of repairs and maintenance, and risk a one time bad breakdown somewhere here in Mexico.

I already know that within the next 4 years, I will need to buy a Mexican car, due to changes in immigration law, and importation rules. So, if I can coax it those 0 - 4 years, it will maximize my utility of that car.

I plan on a trip from the border to the Midwest in October, the last time. (I am 71 and have had enough long trip driving. I can still do it; I simply don’t want to, any more.) That will be around 3,000 miles. Or, maybe I will rent a car. My son has been doing that, and it really doesn’t cost that much for a week or two with unlimited miles.

Other than that, probably the 5,000 miles a year will be it.

In 2012, I took my last trip to Florida to see my son. Now, if he wants to see me, he can come here. Or not, as he wishes.

My health isn’t bad, so far. I can still bring in 110 pound bags of cement from the truck when we are doing construction. It is more a lack of interest in more long trips than ability to do them.

The cousin tells me I can probably get a good used Sienna here, 8 to 10 years old, for maybe $8000 and much lower mileage.

Anyway, thanks for information. I sort of thought so, but wanted to review.

22

Very unlikely to fail suddenly without some warning, like a noisy timing chain or low oil pressure

Fail beyond repair?
I think fatigue failure in the block or the eventual limit to how far the cylinders could be bored out.
In a well maintained engine all the other parts can be replaced when they wear out or fail from fatigue. So I’d think an overhaul at 250K then another 250K is doable. At 500K I’d spring for new pistons and rods, out of concern about metal fatigue. Of course the rest of the car probably won’t make it this far.

I sold my '88 Accord to a friend (I know, not smart) with 220K. It’s now at 280K and the engine (& manual trans) are the only things not showing signs beater-dom.

23

Interesting thoughts, cs. If it makes it to the 230,000 miles or so, circumstances will dictate another car speaking another language.

If it weren’t for the immigration/importation issues, I do think i’d go for a new or rebuilt engine. The car has spent little time in the rust belt and I think overall, the limits are going to be motor and transmission.

Or, total wreck.

One reason to keep it if I could keep importing it, is in the Zeta Zone, one doesn’t want a bright new car…

24

If the engine has no specific weak areas, it will gradually wear out. Assuming a water pump replacemendt and timing chain at about 400,000 miles, the valve gear and piston rings will gradually wear to where we have high oil consumption and noisy valve gear.

We will also have piston blowby which is hard on the oil and seals; the PCV valve will plug up. At this stage a valve job, ring job, new bearings, etc would be in order. Fifty years ago we would rebuild the engine; today we will just scrap it and buy a used engine or a factory rebuild.Since the rest of the car will have well over 400,000 miles on it. we would prabably just be best off scrapping the who car.

Personally, I have never had to replace and engine or scrap a car because the engine was worn out. The body always went first.

However, in countries with low labor rates and high import duties, cars are rebuilt forever with cheap after market parts. India is a good example.

25
I think all I wanted to add to the thread was the "anything's possible." 200K is 200k. I figure all bets are off.

I agree that “anythings possible”…But 200k miles does not mean it’s on it’s last legs. If the vehicle is maintained well it’s unlikely that the engine will just suddenly quit. Yes more likely then a vehicle with 5k miles…but not much more on a well maintained 200 mileage engine.

26

Docnick, don’t forget Cuba.

Mexico has low labor rates. I sometimes see an old VW “Thing”, which is called a safari here. Looks like brand new. A lot of early 70’s VW looking like new.

At one time a niece who had a VW the same age as herself told me you could have a VW completely re-upholstered for around $300 USD.

And, a complete motor overhaul kit for the VW cost the same as an alternator on a Dodge Shadow.

People have been known to take non-rusty VW Beetles from the US and have them completely rebuilt inside and out. Not too expensive, but US customs now takes a real close look at Beetles coming back into the US, and you pay customs charges on the restoration.

Some years ago, we visited a cousin in Puebla. He was driving and showed me the generator light was red. We looked at the generator, and I remembered reading in VW repair for the compleat idiot that the brushes could do that.

Next day we drove to a mechanic, who put in new brushes, problem solved, cost around $2 US including labor.

27

@irlandes Yes, of course, Cuba is the world’s largest car museum. In Malaysia where I lived for 5 years they rebuilt Mercedes and Volvos with Chinese parts and made them look like new. I was picked up by a contract company driver who had a boxy 70s Volvo with 750,000 miles on it with new paint, upholstery, mahogany trimmed steering wheel, etc.

P.S. With respect to wearout patterns, mechanical equipment follows the so-called “bathtub curve”. If you visualize a lengtwise cross section of a bathtub, you will have a steep downward sloping curve on one side and a gradually sloping one on the other . The steep side is the initial failure frequency ,when new. These failures are called “infant mortalities” and are the result of manufacturing defects, and coverd by warranty.

Then we have a long steady, low line of faulures, repesented by the flat bottom of the tub. That’s the normal low frequency failure rate (called random failures) during the normal operating life, 300,000 miles or more for a good vehicle. The length of this flat area depends on the quality of the equipment; a Fiat will have a much shorter flat part that a Toyota or Honda.

Then we get to the gently upward sloping part of the tub (where you rest your back) and that’s called the wearout curve. This is characterized by increasingly more frequent failures until the annual cost of the repairs becomes uneconomic. How far you can get up this curve depends on the cost and availability of parts and the labor rate. In a high cost area with stringent environmental laws, that upward slope may be short before it becomes uneconomic to keep the vehicle.

Havana, Cuba does not seem to have any retrictions and cars are continuously rebuilt, often with parts from other vehicles.

28

Cuba started letting new cars come in. But, not long ago, they raised the prices to a prohibitive level. I forget exactly, but like $100,000 for a small non-luxury car.

My first wife, now deceased, was a Cuban refugee. And, after she no longer lived in my state, other Cuban women made it a point to come and ask me to please not judge all Cuban women by her behavior. Hee, hee.

So, I have two kids, who consider themselves Cuban-American.

When the son got a job teaching at NASA in Houston, the professor who hired him, said, “Speaking Spanish is a big asset here. We now have someone who can talk to the cleaning ladies.” Seriously.

My other daughter whose mother is Mexican refuses to being anything other than American, period. She is a real sweetie.

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@irlandes‌

" . . . good used Sienna here, 8 to 10 years old . . ."

Honestly, your Sienna is probably better maintained versus some unknown 8 to 10 year old which you would buy from a stranger

For now, I would stick with the devil I know . . .

30

I’m with db on this. I see absolutely no reason to buy another used vehicle when the one you have isn’t having any problems. Why pay money for a used car of unknown reliability when you already have one of known reliability?

As for rebuilds, my philosophy is if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it… regardless of its odometer reading.

31

I think on newer cars the engines and transmission - if properly maintained - will outlast the rest of the car. At this day and age the electronic gizmos will fail - like dash lcds, back up cameras, voice activated everything before the mechanical parts.
You can not maintain a in dash entertainment center.
Also what tends to fail - like in a thread some days ago - awd electronics etc. These fixes will be and are so expensive that not worth to spend money on them…

32

Up here in the Northeast the vehicle often suffers the effects of repeated salt baths before the engine finally gives up its ghost. The love affair between iron and oxygen is our biggest enemy. Bigger than the electronics.

33

@ the same mountainbike
I see your point, but new cars are getting better at rust proofing while the electronics are getting more and more complicated and integrated and more expensive to replace…

34

I thought I explained why I might need to buy another car. I currently live in Mexico. To take a US car into Mexico, it has to be ‘imported.’

Only under certain conditions can you legally import a car to Mexico.

  1. On a 180 day tourist permit, and tourist permits are supposed to be for tourist type activities, not for living full time. I admit people do that all the time, but there are restrictions on some things as a tourist. Not only do i not want to drive back through the Zeta zone very 180 days, but if something happens and my car doesn’t clear the border by the end of the 18o days, I forfeit a $ 300 bond, and/or my car can be confiscated by the cops.

  2. As a temporary resident. Under the new laws, the only way I can get a temporary resident permit is by being husband of a Mexican, which I am. There are certain legal requirements which must be met to the letter to qualify for FAMILY UNITY. Mostly paper stuff, but the local officials simply don’t always know how to do them, since there are only two North Americans in this 750 square mile area, the other is a wife of a Mexican man.

And, actually I may want permanent residence in order to become a Mexican national down the road, since I want to live here until I die, then be buried here.

Permanent residence does not permit me to import a car.

Thus I may be needing eventually to buy a Mexican car. I hope this is more understandable now. It has nothing to do with how good my 2002 Sienna is, but the legal status of my US car.

Interestingly, it is easy to take a Mexican car to the US, as long as you buy insurance before crossing the border to the north. We see Mexican cars in McAllen many times a day. So, if I buy a Mexican car or pickup, I can easily drive into our mobile home in McAllen. But, the other way requires certain conditions as I have described.

And, we are assuming if we take more long trips in the US,we would park the Mexican car in McAllen and drive a US based rental car. i get stopped illegally with Texas plates. I can’t even imagine what a trip across the US with Mexican plates would be like.

35

I had heard a little about the Mexicans changing their laws on US car importation, but this is getting silly, with Mexico about to become our biggest source of imported cars. What are they so scared of? They seem quite capable of competing with anyone on price. Is it still used cars that have them worried? Those US cars in good enough shape to be worth fixing there, but not here? We end up with a used car shortage if that stays true, much as they have in Germany, where any decent used car (especially luxury brands) gets shipped to Eastern Europe, where prices are higher.

36
I see your point, but new cars are getting better at rust proofing while the electronics are getting more and more complicated and integrated and more expensive to replace...

Electronics are still a LOT more reliable then any mechanical device. Electronic devices in a car should outlast the car by decades. There are some electro-mechanical devices that need attention (alternator, starter). There are design problems and build problems that may cause the electronics to premature fail…but if done right…they just don’t wear out.

37

I see your point too, 252525.

Rustproofing on many makes has come a long, long way. Interestingly, so has electronics. What used to require transistors, wiring, PC boards, relays, and things subject to corrosion, vibration, and impact is now done all on one chip. The chip having almost no mass, as long as its mounting is solid it’s bulletproof. The weak points now are the wiring harness and the connectors. And the sensing systems that send the signals by which the chip runs its protocols.

I agree with you that today’s systems have left the world of reality. They can do everything. And they often do, whether we want them to or not. Much of this is traceable back to federal regulations, and that part really p***** me off. Today’s cars are way over regulated. And that adversely affects reliability and drives costs up. But that’s the subject of other threads.

38

@irlandes: Regarding your legal situation…do you know for a fact that you can’t “cobble together” a workaround to the new law? (Or a new change in your legal status that changes which laws apply…didn’t quite figure out which is operative.)

Clearly, you know Mex WAY better than I…but it’s known as a place where the letter of the law is (ahem) “subject to interpretation” by the local LEO. If you absolutely love the car–and the local police see you as “good people,” importantly–perhaps a unconventional solution could be reached??

39

We have a friend in Cancun who manages timeshares and hotel packages. His wife is Mexican, and he decided to take out Mexican citizenship as well. He now owns a house and two cars and expects to retire in Mexico as well.

40

Getting back to catastrophic engine failures, these failures usually occur within the warranty period due to a manufacturing defect. I had an engine replaced under warranty in a 1990 Ford Aerostar I once owned that had a hairline crack in a cylinder head. According to Ford, enough coolant had leaked into the cylinder that the cylinder wall was scored. The Aerostar had about 30,000 at the time. I saw a rod go through the block of a brand new lawnmower within half an hour of the time it was first started.
Your Sienna with all its miles may be more trustworthy than a new vehicle. I never start out on a trip in a new vehicle until I have stacked up at least 1000 miles. We bought a brand new Toyota 4Runner back in 2003 and within a few days it developed a chirp under the hood. The dealer replace the serpentine belt three times and one time the technician put the belt on wrong and it pulled out the crankshaft oil seal. I wouldn’t even drive the 4Runner 15 miles out of town until I knew the problem was solved. It was finally solved when I told the dealer it either had to be fixed properly and he had one more chance to do that or he could buy it back under the lemon law. The dealer finally got to the root of the problem–a defective spring in the belt tensioner. Now, ten years and many miles later, I don’t think twice about taking the 4Runner on long trips.