I only had two issues with my son’s drivers ed at high school. I understand they are the rules but still dangerous in my view. The one was stopping at the stop sign that is too far back to be able to see the intersection. So then you either have to go ahead a few feet and stop again or risk hitting someone. I myself slide a little past the stop sign so I can clearly see the intersection. The other was on city side streets with no lane markings. It makes no sense to stay in your lane with no other cars around and end up just a foot or two from parked cars. A kid jumping out or a door opening can be disaster. Much better to straddle the center and stay away from parked cars, then move over when another car comes. Other than that they did a good job.
@JoeMario
I understand where you are coming from and in general parenting I whole heatedly agree with your sentiment. But, like @VDC, trust AND verify are two elements I would practice when it comes to driving a car where life and death decisions are complicated by adolescent hormones.
Bing, you are supposed to come to a complete stop behind the limit line at a stop sign. Then you pull forward to check traffic as necessary. This is for future reference in case you cross path with an over zealous law enforcement officer
Yes, the laws…’‘as written’’ ( ie; the letter of the law )… and the logic of what should be, are so very often two different things.
A few months ago ;
A one-way street going north is my destination.
I’m facing east waiting to turn left onto this street.
State cop is going to turn right from the opposite direction onto the same street.
This street has THREE lanes.
I turn simultaneously with the state cop , light is green for both E & W bound traffic, left lane for me, right lane for him, center lane free…perfectly sane and logical…right ??
– not according to him ! —
But I guess that my logic trumped his ‘‘laws’’ , he just ‘‘warned’’ me that the law states the right turner has the right -of-way over the left turner.
“but,” I said, " that law refers to both vehicles vying for a single lane. This street has three lanes and there are only two vehicles turning AND 300 yards for either to change lanes for the next street. "
"but what if I was going straight and not turning ? " he rebuts.
“You weren’t , I could tell, so I turned too.”
"But what if I wanted the left lane ?“
so I told him " the LAW also says to take the nearest lane ANY time you make a turn, so you’d have been wrong there too, to just go slammin into my lane. and this is why we have our eyes open when we drive, to coordinate with anyone else so nobody needs to wait for any body and traffic flows for everyone”
By then he had to have realized his ‘‘law’’ he stopped me for was busted due to it being a one-way and he had no grounds otherwise.
So, teaching a new driver all these variables is a long arduous proccess. learning the letter of the law… and learning to drive… may be different.
ANOTHER reason for him to slow down . To give time to analyze all the variables in any situation and still allow for smooth traffic flow for all.
I am already talking driving with my 14 year old for that reason. I’ve already told her that here is a very good case of ‘‘do as I say, not as I do’’ and we notice the differences if both. She already can drive the monster 08 Expedition on the backroads well, so now we’re talking traffic laws.
Re the “slow and go” at a stop sign. It would seem that anyone obsessed with cars not coming to a complete stop at stop signs might not be well suited to being a traffic cop. Good sense would allow that the intent of the law is the ultimate objective rather than indulgence in the letter of the law. Pompous, vindictive law enforcement results in contempt for the law. An officer hiding 1/2 a block away from an intersection concentrating on the tires of vehicles to discern if the driver failed to come to a dead stop is somewhat anally retentive.
Has the OP not returned since opening this thread?
Now that you bring up “pompous, vindictive law enforcement”, we might have made some of them that way. This is not a confession but when I was very young, on Halloween, we strung some eggs across a very dark bridge. Of course the eggs were painted flat black. We hid up on the hill waiting for the first car to come by. Um, it was a police car. Tires screeched but he didn’t see it in time. I’m sure he would have been pretty vindictive if he had caught us but we took the long way home and didn’t return to the scene of the crime.
@dagosa:
No problem if we agree to disagree.
To me, the “trust but verify” approach that everyone refers to really translates to saying to your child: “I don’t trust you enough so I have to verify your actions myself.”
When a parent tells a kid to not do something, what behavior does that produce when the parent isn’t around?
Most or all of us on this forum were told to drive safely when we learned how to drive. If electronic verification devices existed and if our parents installed them, wouldn’t you have found other opportunities to satisfy your driving curiosities?
I happen to feel strongly about the importance of a child going off into life with his/her parent’s full trust. Use of electronic verification devices undermines that trust.
As I noted earlier, there is no right or wrong here. It’s a subjective topic. We all have our years of experiences working with youth - in many capacities - that shape our views on this.
@joemario
I think we are pretty much on the same page. We let our kids know that once they demonstrated they could be trusted with the car, we were very lenient about when they got it. Nearly all of the time they ask for a car, they got it. It was seldom they not getting one, but they always wanted mom’s Accord and not my truck or the third car, a Chevy Nova or Prism. That’s where the debate came in.
Even the " eleven / seven rule" which we instituted the last couple of years in high school may seem pretty lienient to most, especially with one of the family cars, ( if you’re not in by eleven, don’t come back till seven) we felt was a must to prepare them for college life. They still had us as a back up they could call anytime with no questions and they learned to surround themselves with friends they could trust. But, all of this only came AFTER they demonstrated they could be trusted in making good decisions, especially when driving and in academics. If your kids demonstrate they can maintain good study habits and perform well in school where you seldom see them for eight to ten straight hours, you are on your way to showing all the trust in them both you and I can agree upon.
. At the very least, obeying all speed laws while we were in the car, next to them, seems pretty obvious. If they can’t do that, removing the car from her use seems appropriate as well as monitoring them otherwise. Let’s face it, if you can’t trust them to obey the laws on their own if they can’t do it in front of you. I think that is where VDC and I are coming from.
SAFETY IS ABETWEEN THE EARS THING GOOGLE THE “SMITH SYSTEM”
Not every kid is ready to drive at the same chronological age.
My question to you is this: If your son cannot and/or will not properly monitor and modify his driving speed while you are in the car with him, why to you expect that he will do so minus you in the car? Sounds to me like he isn’t ready to be driving on his own at all yet.
It’s amazing what just a year or two, sometimes even a few months, difference in maturity makes in driving abilities and attitudes. Frankly, I highly favor the graduated system of licensing for young drivers some states such as Illinois have adopted.
It may seem convenient to let a 16 year old have the car to drive on his own so that parents need do less taxi service for the kid but what exactly is the life of that child worth in convenience?
I speak from experience as having been a dreadful lead foot teenager in drivers ed at age 16 whom my parents chose not to allow a full license until I was several years older and proved I could and would pay attention to speed limits and showed better overall driving judgment and responsibility. I had to pass parental instruction in driving to get my full privileges and believe me that was far tougher to achieve than anyone else’s version of drivers ed!
Some kids just need more time before they are ready even though most kids are certain they are hot stuff behind a wheel from day one.
I have found that TIME ( practice a learning ) produces a better driver…and pilot .
The pilot training course began with …not flying anything,
but learning the physics of the air foil surfaces , the mechanics of the internal combustion engine and carburation ( the reasons they work PLUS the reasons the stop working )
, the math of gallons per hour, the calculations for wind speed, direction, and angle of correction as related to ground speed, chart ( map ) reading, and more.
We didn’t fly anything for a long time. Then when we did, we had a massive appreciation of the task at hand.
For vehicle driving, has you new driver learned any of the physical atributes of the machine ?
What makes it go ? ( engine, transmission, axles, wheels, )
What makes it stop ?
What malfuctions could occur and why ?
Has your new driver learned accident causes and avoidence ?
Traffic inter-coordination theory ?
Emergency preparedness ?
My oldest daughter and her same aged cousin got their licenses at the same time.
We could clearly see the ability difference in the cousin who learned gradually on a rural ranch setting. She operated many machines and old trucks, tractors , ATVs, motorcyles etc. Then only had to learn traffic laws and street operation.
Her overall respect of the machine and the neighboring drivers was clearly evident.
My daughter dented the instructor’s old caddy.
This is why I’m already driving with my 14 year old on back roads and talkin laws and traffic conditions. I want her to have more time dealing with it.
As others have mentioned, even at 16 ,your new driver may truly not be ready and need more TIME.
Maybe, tell him …to his face…’'you don’t have a clue and we’ll wait untill you do. ‘’
When the lesson about the terrible responsibility of driving sinks in(takes a long time in some people) then good driving will follow,have seen some great responsible teenage drivers(but not that many) when these popular songs sing about “crashing my car my into a bridge” Hollywood doesnt do the Kids any favors either,they just keep the myth going that people are largely invulnerble and the heroes can out run explosions,etc.Young drivers just dont have anything to base their driving on,unfortunately the school of “hardknocks” is sometimes fatal.Perhaps,a tour of a junkyard is approiate,with the smell of decaying bodyparts in a wrecked car-Kevin