85% of the drivers driving 20 mph over the speed limit is an absolute fallacy !!! It’s just a made up statistic as none of you speeders ever ran speed monitoring device to really be sure. There are often groups of speeders who feel there is safety in numbers travel at these speeds and think that because of their numbers, everyone else is driving that fast too because they are traveling together. Sorry, I have seen results of speed monitoring stats…and it just doesn’t happen. Why you guys keep repeating this to reinforce your habits when it’s just a snap shot in time to rationalize your speeding takes the discussion of track. The average speed of all the traffic in areas like this considering rush hour and on and off ramp congestion is often so low, the speeding groups create speed differential problems.
Forgive me for saying so…but his natural speed idea is so bogus too, it makes no sense when a heavily insulated car with very poor driving characteristics can feel safer at higher speeds when they aren’t compared to a noisy, open air, stiffly suspended vehicle which has much better stopping distances and handling characteristics.
When has a natural speed driver ever had his brakes and tires tested in all driving conditions so he actually knows his real stopping distances. Most (all) drivers don’t have a clew what their distances are at different speeds and have never driven their cars through a course to know their handling characteristics which can easily vary at different speeds too. . That makes the discussion of speeder awareness completely subjective.
Made up statistics and natural speeds sound like a discussion akin conspiracy theories. We can all agree on basics like, the faster you go, the slower your reaction time over time as well as one other basic idea. Getting into an accident of no fault of your own is often just being in the wrong place at the wrong time and the faster you travel, the more likely you are to exacerbate the results.
@FoDaddy
You are absolutely right. Any vehicle loaded is a totally different animal when loaded. Big modern load carrying vehicles are really pussy cats to drive, UNLOADED; which by the way, is not their intended use.
Speed differentials around 10 MPH are not much of a problem.OH yes it is…10mph can make a huge difference in moderately heavy traffic. Light traffic…I’ll agree it won’t make much of a difference.
Should I drive the same speed as everyone else, or should I use my best judgement and sense and drive the speed limit?Most people try to stay out of the way of big trucks…But if you’re driving the speed limit here in NH or MA…don’t be surprised if you get cut off every 2-3 seconds. Because it WILL happen. Sorry…that’s just a fact. You will NOT be able to maintain a proper safe distance from the vehicle in front of you no matter how you try. So stay to the right (which unfortunately MOST truckers in MA don’t do.) Instead they are driving in the middle lane and everyone now has to go around them. I’ve seen more then one accident because of that.
If you want to be the SAFEST trucker on the highways here in MA and NH…Here is the safest thing you can do as a trucker in traffic like MA or NH…
STAY OFF THE HIGHWAY DURING RUSH-HOUR TRAFFIC…PERIOD. Everyone else on the road would be much much much safer.
As far as law enforcement goes, natural speed is obviously not a good way to judge safety, but speed limits do not differ between better or worse drivers, or better / worse driving conditions. Consider a street with a 30 mph speed limit - it can be safer to drive this road at 45mph when sunny and clear than it is to drive it at 20mph when theres snow on the ground. Speed limit is 30 mph either way.
Or consider a good driver going 45 mph and an elderly driver with a slower reaction time going 30mph. In the extra 2 seconds it takes to react, the worse driver has already traveled 90 feet. In order to be safer, the aware driver has to be able to brake to slow from 45mph to 30mph in 90 feet, not a problem.
Last week I was on the highway in the left lane and I saw a cop approaching behind me, so I got out of the lane with plenty of distance between myself and the cop. The car in front of me did the same. The next car, however, did not. The cop pulled up to within a few feet behind this car, and stayed there for a full minute, which is surprising because cops usually put on their lights after about 10 to 15 seconds. Still it wasn’t until more than 60 seconds later that the person realized there was a cop car feet behind them and got out of the lane. Clearly this person is not a safe driver, not checking their mirrors more than once every couple minutes. Yet the bad drivers and the good drivers alike are considered “safe” at the same speeds.
Speed limits are a long standing policy, and long-standing policies are very difficult to change. However, when technology becomes a little cheaper, I wouldn’t object to having to take an advanced driving test every year which would determine how fast I can drive among other things. Many ways that this could be implemented - such as writing my driving level to a card the car would use to limit acceleration and top speeds on different roads. But there are plenty of holes in that idea, just like there are many problems with speed limits.
Nobody “averages 80 mph” on the freeway. The fact that a lot of people think they do is testimony to the fact that most of us aren’t so good at math. Wanna win an easy sucker bet? Bet your lead foot friends that they can’t average 70 mph on a freeway trip, and then make them prove it by dividing the total distance they traveled by the total time it took.
@FoDaddy,what you were driving was like a large pickup,no comparsion between that and a large heavily laden well seasoned 5 ton truck with 400K miles on it,driving those wore out junkers all day is pretty hard,some have about a 75 ft turning radius,no heater, no AC, ride rough,noisy ,no radio,have a harsh ride and very poor visibility and vitually no accelaration,poor brakes,really not an easy job(was a little easier then the right of way work or working ditches and other stoop labor) but the strange thing is,its hard to find people to drive this junk now(the standard reply was" truck drivers are a dime a dozen and there is an operator behind every tree" meanwhile the company owners buy new diesel pickups and farmland for themselves and take expensive hunting trips all over the country.Yes it gets old,because the working man never gets ahead-Kevin
@BLE.
Absolutely right. When ever we take a trip to our kid’s places in NH and Mass, even without stopping, it’s amazing how much slower the average speed is then when what you think it is. I mentioned earlier that they raised the speed limit on a 395 connector road which is pretty straight with few ramps because, everyone has ave. speed of 5 over the posted limited to 65 mph…that seems pretty normal. If it were 80 mph, or even 75 or about 10 over as an average, you know a bunch would have to be driving over 90 mph…that just doesn’t happen.
@MikeInNH: “Where did anyone say anything about tailgating?”
“You will NOT be able to maintain a proper safe distance from the vehicle in front of you no matter how you try.”
Do you see the connection now?
Nobody "averages 80 mph" on the freeway.
I don’t think people average 80 around here either…but 70-75 YES…Easily. When traffic gets real heavy…then traffic drops to a crawl. Heavy traffic in rush hour near Boston is usually under 10mph.
"You will NOT be able to maintain a proper safe distance from the vehicle in front of you no matter how you try."Do you see the connection now?
Tailgating is a term used to a person who’s purposely trying to ride the *ss of the person in front of them. If you want to call ANY time there’s not proper distance tailgating…then fine.
In either case…you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN PROPER DISTANCE FROM THE CAR IN FRONT OF YOU…You may THINK you can…but you can’t. So this comment you made about NOT tailgating is moot…since it’s IMPOSSIBLE to do in moderate traffic in NH and MA.
@dagosa, and @BLE, you guys are absolutely right. When I was being trained as a truck driver, we were taught how to calculate our average speed. We were instructed to use 50 MPH to estimate travel time, and to revise it upward as we calculated our average speeds. There is simply no way to have an average speed of 80 MPH on a public highway, even where the speed limit has been pushed up to 75 MPH.
There is simply no way to have an average speed of 80 MPH on a public highway, even where the speed limit has been pushed up to 75 MPH
If you’re talking average speed over long distances…then YES you can not maintain an average speed of 80 or even 75 mph.
Once or twice a month I have to drive into Boston. A distance of about 45 miles from my house. My AVERAGE speed on the highway is 20mph…YES 20.
My first 20 miles of the trip I’m keeping up with the prevailing speed of the moderate traffic of about 75mph. Then the next 20 miles traffic gets heavier and my speed has dropped down to about 50…then the last 10 miles were at a crawl of no more then 10mph. That last 10 miles takes over an hour in the heavy traffic. So YUP…in order for me to AVERAGE 75mph…that first leg in moderate traffic I’d have to be going about 140mph.
There was a trip in which I came down the mountain with a bus loaded with skiers. The speed limit on that road was 40, but I kept it at 35 and maxed out the engine in 3rd. I didn’t have a tachometer and didn’t want to miss a gear going between 3rd and 4th(it had a crash box and there’s a 1k feet drop to the right). Another driver who I was teaming with went the speed limit and finished the 200 miles trip a whopping 15 minutes sooner than me. Some of you may not agree with the posted speed limit, but you have to seat behind the wheel of a big vehicle to find out what it’s like
Some of you may not agree with the posted speed limit, but you have to seat behind the wheel of a big vehicle to find out what it's like
I don’t thing anyone here is saying they don’t agree with the posted speed limit. I NEVER did.
What we’re saying is that if everyone on the road is doing 10mph+ over the speed limit…and you’re driving the speed limit…you are endangering yourself and other drivers.
What would be the safest…is that EVERYONE drives the speed limit…gee wouldn’t that be nice. But it’s NOT realistic. I live in reality. By NOT driving the prevailing speed in moderate traffic…I’m endangering myself and others…that’s a PROVEN FACT.
@chunkyazian
Yes, drivers of big vehicles have a different situation than the rest of us. Similarly elderly drivers have a different situation. But speed limits are posted as an upper limit, so driving slower is allowed but faster is not.
While the posted limit may be appropriate for truckers and people over 75, the other 90-95% of people can safely drive faster.
My problem is that the laws are designed for 5-10% of people.
@MikeInNH: Tailgating is following too closely, thereby creating a dangerous situation. Intent doesn’t dictate how we describe behavior. I would like to avoid rattling your cage, but I can’t sit by and see you blame your tailgating on the way others drive and not respond. What you’re doing is a classic passive-aggressive behavior, CHOOSING to tailgate and blaming it one other people.
The only way it’s impossible to keep a safe distance between your car and the car in front of you is if someone is holding a gun to your head, screaming, “TAILGATE OR I’LL SHOOT YOU!” Otherwise, there is only one person driving your car, and that person is responsible for how that car is being driven. No matter how you try to passive-aggressively justify tailgating, you’re solely responsible for how you drive your car.
Please stop telling me it’s impossible not to tailgate. I know better.
@Whitey
He is describing a scenario in moderate traffic, where it can be impossible to not tailgate (well I suppose technically it is possible to slow down to 20mph on a highway, but lets say thats not an option)
Driving in moderate highway traffic, there will be plenty of cars around to fill open spaces when they appear. Safe driving at 65mph is technically around 300 feet behind - if you are 300 feet behind the car in front of you, someone will enter that space. So to not tailgate, you release the gas and let your car slow down until there is 300 feet available again. Before that 300 feet appears, another car will enter, so you keep letting your car coast. This will keep on happening and happening over and over again until you are driving so slow, the cars entering within a couple hundred feet of your car get out of this area so fast you don’t need to slow down anymore.
The way I was originally instructed to drive, I was told to leave one car length for every 10 MPH of speed, but that technique has been replaced by the time it takes to pass a stationary landmark. The Motorcycle Safety Foundation recommends a two second following distance for motorcycles. For cars, the recommendation is usually four seconds. For commercial trucks, the recommendation is at least eight seconds. Therefore, the proper following distance isn’t just a matter of speed; it’s also a matter of vehicle size and weight.
Letting people change lanes in front of you isn’t going to slow you down that much. Once you create a safe space, you pace the car in front of you.
“This will keep on happening and happening over and over again until you are driving so slow, the cars entering within a couple hundred feet of your car get out of this area so fast you don’t need to slow down anymore.”
This phenomenon you describe never happens. You might arrive five or ten seconds later than you would otherwise, and occasionally, you might be a few minutes behind schedule because you have to wait an additional cycle at a red light, but I think you’re over-exaggerating the problem.
This brings up another important issue. Driving faster than the posted speed limit should lead to greater distances between cars if it is to be done safely, but how many people maintain that four second distance when they’re driving 80 MPH in a 70 MPH zone? If people aren’t maintaining safe distances when driving 80 MPH, how could it possibly be safer for everyone to be driving 80 MPH instead of 70 MPH. How exactly does that work?
This thread has happened before. Everyone has now migrated into their traditional encampments and the muskets have come out.
Rick, see what you’ve started? {:-/