So Mike, you wouldn’t hurt anyone if you hit them doing 25? Is that really your suggestion? Do you REALLY think I’m not already driving well below the speed limit? How does doing 20-25 stop people from steeping directly out into your path? Brilliant suggestion…
That’s a dumb question. At 25mph I know have enough reaction time to STOP if someone does darts out in front of me. You don’t STOP for pedestrians? Pick a speed that you’re feel safe enough to be able stop when some kid comes running through the cross walk because he/she has the right of way. If you don’t feel you can stop at any speed…then don’t drive in that area. It’s real simple.
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That’s laughable.
Now you’re following your typical argument strategy- a straw man. It’s not even worth responding to.
Just following your lead.
I can easily travel through Boston at 25mph without hitting someone. Boston is one of the worse cities to drive in. Other cities are a piece of cake compared to Boston. Most other cities have much wider roads that give you more time to react. Boston has some extremely narrow streets where 2 cars can barely squeak by each other.
I don’t see what the argument really is. Pedestrians have right of way…PERIOD. If you don’t feel like you can drive a car safely under those conditions in a city…then DON’T. Arguing about it is kind of moot.
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Last night I did. 6:40 pm - full dark. Travelling at about 30 MPH in a rural area with sidewalks. I came around a bend to an area with multiple side street entries in a short span. I noticed that the traffic facing me had stopped, so I began to brake not knowing why and only then saw an older couple, all in dark clothing, halfway across the street. Seriously considered stopping to tell them they were practically invisible in the clothes they opted to wear on their evening walk. The vehicle I was in did not have pedestrian detection and emergency auto braking. The one I had just swapped out of did. Makes me wonder if it would have intervened.
That reminds me of a recent incident. I was driving across a set of train tracks, and as I came across, I saw a shadowy dark figure standing between me and a stopped car in the right-hand travel lane. The shadowy figure was holding a cell phone. Evidently, she was engaging the flashlight feature on her cell phone to waive off oncoming traffic, so I pulled over and recommended she not stand in front of the car. I told her I didn’t see her until I crossed over the tracks, and her life was worth more than the car. She didn’t take my advice, but at least I tried.
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"Pedestrians have right of way…PERIOD."
Legally? No. Morally? Absolutely!
Massachusetts pedestrian right of way
Massachusetts law favors the rights of pedestrians over vehicles of any type. Usually pedestrians have the right of way, but the right of way is not absolute. A pedestrian crossing a street in a crosswalk, or at an intersection with either the “Walk” signal or on a green light, has the right of way.
Obviously LEGALLY a pedestrian doesn’t have the right of way at all times. it was already established in this thread that we were talking about when a pedestrian has the LEAGAL right-of-way. But in a city situation like Boston you have to watch for pedestrians all the time…especially bicyclists. Many are just jerks. But people were complaining about when a pedestrian had the LEGAL right of way. I still don’t see how that’s a problem…YOU STOP.
I think the answer to the “Lagally?” question depends on the jurisdiction. I don’t know if it’s still the case, but in New York state, it used to be that the pedestrian always had the right of way. Whether that applied to jaywalking, I don’t know.
I’m sorry. The word PERIOD… confused me.
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At my local supermarket, there are 4 pedestrian crosswalks between the parking area and the store.
Each of those crosswalks has a sign–mounted on a moveable rubber pedestal–reminding drivers that they are required by law to yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk.
A few weeks ago, a driver failed to yield to an elderly pedestrian in the crosswalk, and–luckily–he only wound-up creaming the warning sign and dragging it about 20 feet under his VW. (Yes, some people apparently mistake this parking area for the NJ Turnpike, and drive through at excessive speeds) For a couple of weeks, the supermarket kept the severely-scarred warning sign in place, apparently until they were able to secure a replacement.
Just imagine if that jerk-off driver had hit the pedestrian instead of the sign. No matter what that senior citizen’s political affiliations might have been, if she had been hit–instead of the sign–by the JO VW driver, she might not have survived the impact or the subsequent dragging over the pavement.
It’s a two way street. Both need to watch out for each other. Without reading all the comments yet, it might be my imagination but it seems like the situation got worse when Minnesota passed their pedestrian friendly law. Now, especially around campuses, it seems people do not even look before crossing a street expecting cars to see them and come to a screeching halt. Yes they are supposed to have the right of way but they also are supposed to yield to cars in the road. Confusing for sure. So if cars are coming they are supposed to stay on the curb, but if they are on the curb, cars are supposed to yield to them. So some cars stop even if the pedestrians are on the curb and others don’t, creating a dangerous situation. We were taught stop look and listen 60 years ago before crossing a street. Seems like it is still good instruction. I still haven’t been hit, but cars backing up in a parking lot is far more dangerous than crossing a street. Back-up lights, another great safety feature.
I’ve had 2 close calls, both similar situations at intersections. One time at a 3-way intersection, I was stopped to make a right turn on red waiting for the traffic to go by. I’m looking to the left at the traffic and when I start to go, a guy had walked in front of my car from the right. I had turned my head just in time and stopped. That could have turned out much worse. When I’m walking, I go behind the car turning if I don’t make eye contact. Walking in front of a car like that is stupid but it’s still technically my fault.
The other time I stopped at a 3-way stop sign. I see a woman jogger straight ahead on the other side just standing there dancing in one spot. I’m looking to the left again for traffic as I pull from the stop and the woman darts across in front of me. Saw her just in time and stopped. She cursed at me…Again, that’s probably my fault but she should have waited.
Actually, Mike, as a pedestrian, on of my biggest “pet peeves” we’re people who would go out of their way to accommodate me, in ways I can’t predict in advance. Like, I’m waiting for the car nearest me to get by, so I can get across the far lane in advance of opposite traffic… and the car I’m waiting on starts slowing up.
Do they intend to stop? Or just go slowly? I dunno; meanwhile, my “window of opportunity” is closing! My preference is that motorists treat me as if I were Invisible. (Assuming I’m NOT crossing in a crosswalk. If I AM, I’ll exercise my ROW, especially back when I was a letter carrier, and assaulting me would constitute a Federal rap!)
I guess the real problem is that virtually no one is as reasonable, cautious and courteous as I am, and I can be a jerk sometimes. Try riding a motor scooter across Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley on a rainy weekday at 4 pm.
I rode for years with Granite State Wheelmen, and there are roadies I would not ride with. I did the Breath Easy Classic once, a charity ride, and there were two guys riding narrow backroads side-by-side, not leaving room for cars to get by. I dropped back, not wanting to be anywhere near them. I did a ride out of Salem once; same thing. There was a small groups that was ignoring cars and making things very dangerous.
I’ve also had cars come as close to me as possible when I was alone and as far off to the side as possible, one even shouting threats to me.
That’s why I switched to mostly off road riding. I got tired of trying to share the roads with cars and with riding with roadies who have the latest in lycra but absolutely no respect for anyone else on the road.
Exactly. Different states. Different traffic laws. Oregon does not prohibit jaywalking or crossing against the signal but clearly states it is at the pedestrian’s own risk. Massachusetts is actually stricter on pedestrians requiring them to use crosswalks and signals if they are within 300 feet.
In NH, in some towns you WILL get a ticket if you get caught failing to stop for a pedestrian in a crosswalk, and at Hampton Beach in the summer you WILL get caught. It’s very heavily enforced there in the summer. Jaywalking isn’t so heavily enforced.
In Boston forgettaboutit. Cross anywhere you want whenever you want or you’ll NEVER get across! Timing is everything there. If you’re a driver in Boston, just don’t hit anyone… you could end up dead before the cops get there.
As usual you nailed it! Drivers need to be alert and pedestrians need to practice situational awareness. Where I live pedestrians have been brainwashed for decades that they have absolute right of way over motor vehicles. Like you 60 years ago I was taught to use crosswalks by waiting at the curb until traffic stopped. Yesterday I experienced yet another example of a “dipster” phone gazer ambling across a busy city street mid block. Of course drivers stopped but what if one had been phone distracted?
Yeah, it’s definitely the worst.
Recently I was on a 4 lane road too and I was on the left lane of the 2 lanes and there were a pedestrian standing in the median barrier/center divide. It was by UC Berkeley where theres countless of pedestrians walking especially during rush hour and towards the night.
The pedestrian was standing by the median barrier until I saw her last minute. In fact the oncoming traffic had stopped for her to cross but their headlights were just shining so bright, whereby making it impossible to see her until I was close enough.
Till this day, I still feel very stressed out about it and I still can’t get over it.