Armed civilians in a crowded city like Boston with shot guns defending their homes…or a small handgun…I have no problem with. But an AR-15 with an effective range of several hundred yards is NOT the type of weapon to protect yourself in cities. Especially fully automatic versions like the M-16. There are innocent people KILLED every year from stray bullets in this country.
And I have a problem with those people who THINK a M-16 is an effective weapon for protection in a city like Boston.
Yes, @Mike, and a jacketed high velocity round will travel several blocks and easily penetrate a solid wood door and even the wall of many homes and wound or kill whoever is unfortunate enough to be in the line of fire.
it is NOT a man killer and can be a lot of fun. There is no need to do the same with the .223 center fire cartridge except to prepare to kill as the ammo is too expensive to do otherwise compared to a .22...... It serves no other purpose.
Compared to a .22, yeah. But it is still fun to use other calibers to plink with as long as you know you’re paying for it. My favorite gun to shoot that I own is also the most expensive to feed. My Hi-point rifle uses 45acp rounds, and with buying reloads, I can get ammo for about 25 cents a shot. Most factory box ammo is about 50 cents a shot. With popular high power rifle ammo, like 30-06, 30-30, or.308, you’re looking at about a dollar a shot.
You can still kill a person with a .22. Some say it’ll even kill up to 400 yards away. And the .223 round was designed NOT to over penetrate as most other rounds would, which is why it’s such a popular military round.
I do agree that full automatics make horrible home defense choices. Some versions can shoot all 20~30 rounds in it’s magazine before the first ejected shell hits the ground. Granted you’d have a very scared home invader, but you just ran out of ammo and maybe hit the perp a couple times if you’re lucky.
And speaking of high powered rounds with long range; why would the New York City police department need a 50 caliber sniper rifle in such a crowded city? http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/03/daniel-zimmerman/serbu/
"Why would the police need a .50 caliber rifle ?"
Why would we deny them weaponry that’s available to anyone…the Barrett .?
It’s a choice to safety stop a car. There are many occasions where drug running boats and cars were safety stopped using a .50 by authorities with out endangering the public by shooting the motors. That’s proper training and the NY police department with their waterways and highway traffic SHOULD have that option.The public has no need for them yet they are not restricted either. Why don’t we ask why the public is allowed to buy them ?
I’m curious about the limited penetration, bsc. I thought that I heard the entire sales pitch 40 years ago but they never mentioned such a benefit. The metal jacket has several functions with penetration supposedly at the top of the list.
The old dry wall argument tests massaged to make you think they don’t penetrate as much as a hand gun cal. . Yet, ball ammo .223 some how manages to penetrate body armor worn by police better then handgun as well as steel plating. They want it both ways.
http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14%3A223-penetration-information&catid=13%3Atechnical-info&Itemid=21
In New York, private citizens are NOT allowed to own them, which is why Serbu opted not to sell to the NYPD. A protest to the gun laws in New York.
The Serbu basic one is $2400 before you add in stainless steel barrel or bipod(add about $600 for both options),
it’s heavy; the carbine is 17lbs and the long barrel weighs 32lbs, so it’d be cumbersome to lug around much.
nearly 4 feet long in the carbine version. nearly 5 feet long for the longer barrel rifle. so it’ll be hard to find room to put it in some cars.
Ammo is stupid expensive for it, too. Nearly $5 a shot, so most people won’t want the gun based on the ammo cost alone.
Rod talks about how the AR-15 is a “macho thing”, I disagree. I feel the Smith & Wesson 500 and the Desert Eagle are the “macho” guns, mostly due to the .50 caliber rounds they shoot
In New York State or City. Because if there are legal to own in New York State, a criminal need only go across city lines to get one. Serbu obviously feels criminals should out gun the police. That’s a typical response from those who make money selling guns.
Just so we know, manufacturer conveniently lost 16000 guns. Guns that will never be sold through a an FFL dealer but are high value as untraceable by criminals. And that is just what has been Found out. These guys make guns and distribute them to, who knows whom. Gun makers care nothing about the private citizen and like most corporations, their motivation is profit first at the expense of the safety of the law abididing citizens. Through the NRA they conveniently spread untruths, change their stance and disregard the welfare of all but their pocketbook.
Accordingly, federal laws are so weak, they don’t even require manufacturers to track all guns. There are very few federal regulations with any teeth on the books, so arguments, that…they are already there isn’t true !
Guns are going directly from plants to criminals it seems…
When you consider that gear heads will lust for a Hemi with 2 4bbl Holleys and quote chapter and verse on camshaft lift and duration and horse power and torque curves I guess it’s understandable that gun manufacturers feed the lust of gun fans with such hype, dagosa. And there is currently a fanaticism for assault weapons among gun fans. I met an attorney who likes to call himself a firearm collector. He has dozens of military surplus weapons in their original packing, ranging from grease guns to Thompson sub machine guns to BARs and a Barrett 50 caliber and several M-16 knock offs. The weapons are locked away in a climate controlled storage facility that rents for more than a small apartment. I wonder how many other hoarders are out there.
This is where I differ…
I’m NOT against people owning AK-47’s. There are many many many sport enthusiasts who like to use assault weapons at the range. I have no problem with that what-so-ever. I also don’t have a problem with a farmer in middle Nebraska owning an assault weapon for protection. The closest cop may be 3 hours away. Someone in the middle of Boston owning a AK-47 protection…now THAT’S A PROBLEM.
Federal registration - YES…No problem with that.
@Rod Knox,plenty you bet.One thing I would like to see done,is to give the gun manus a boost is this-to, have a one for one and multi type deal.
Works like this,if you want a new gun you have to trade the old one in(to be destroyed and you may exchange an old semi auto for a revolver and a bolt action or two revolvers,sounds wackymbut the state highway dept around here does something similar by obseleting all the safety equipment every few years and read between the lines{ doesnt take Sherlock Holmes to figure out who is in bed with whom}-Kevin
PS; if I was in charge,people would have a lot more freedom believe it or not.It doesn’t take a village or commitee or zillion dollar study ,it just takes one good person surrounded by good people(any takers?)
@rodknox
As far as the attorney goes as any law enforcement officer will tell us, it doesn’t stop there. These weapons will ultimately find their way into the hands of those who should not have them. The shear proliferation in the hands of so called collectors is but a conduit to the crime world or at the least, a relative or friend who should not have one. They don’t stay in that climate controlled lock up. They find their way onto the streets.When a hoarder passes away, I would suspect these guns as part of the estate get transferred into as much cash as possible; few think of it that way… Opportunity for gun violence is then enhanced.
As @MikeinNH says, if they were registered, the responsibility is high for any executor to dispose of these guns properly, otherwise, they become liable. It’s a real simple idea that works for machine guns. Criminals use few weapons like machine guns because they can’t get people to sell them to them or even be caught in their possession when rewards are used. No one wants to spend a few years in jail and have a criminal record for someone else’s crime. As simple as it gets, it works.
Huh. I didn’t think most gang members in Chicago or Boston ran around with AK-47s under their coats. Responsible gun owners don’t just go outside in a dense populated area and open fire. Sheesh-like when has that happened? And a lot of those gun owners in the densly populated areas are fomer military and police. Face it folks, some of you just don’t like people having guns and the freedom to own what they want and will use any excuse to force your will on them.
A lot of people don’t like loud hemis too, and do you really NEED a 400 horse car? They can be killers in densly populated areas, and can fall into the hands of thieves.
It’s the irresponsible gun owners that are the problem, @Bing. And quite a few of the responsible gun owners get bored with their $1,000 assault rifles and sell them to the highest bidder at a gun show with no questions asked. In a few years the pawn shops will be flooded with the weapons that are currently on back order from the factories.
The Ruger Mini-14 has been around for quite a while and out of curiosity I just looked that weapon up and found that it is now available in a pseudo M-16 package to fill the demand for the Assault Rifle IMAGE. The pseudo M-16 is 3 inches shorter than the standard Mini and has a phony tube extension on the stock to give the aura of being a battlefield weapon but offers no real improvement in capability. Like putting a spoiler on a Corolla, Ruger hung the Mattie Mattel stock on their carbine and made a sows ear out of a silk purse.
Under the new proposed rules nothing would have changed for any gun massacres. But my 21 round lever action would be illegal.
"But my 21 round lever action would be illegal. "
How is that ???
@dagosa Max 12 round capacity for a gun, anything more would be an assault rifle and banned.
Sorry 10 rounds.
The legislation bans the sale, transfer, manufacturing and importation of:All semiautomatic rifles and handguns that have a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons-ban-summary
Manually operated weapons are excluded.
" my 21 round lever action would be illegal"
"manually operated weapons are excluded"
Please @Barkeydog, don’t take this personal. I just need to make a point that this illustrates. But, when inaccurate statements are thrown out there they become fact for anyone wishing to argue against gun legislation. When caught up in the correction, the facts become secondary even after any correction and emotion takes over. Thanks for referencing the entire bill. I’m going to guess that a hand cranked Gatling gun is still legal…it’s manually operated so that becomes a legitimate home defense weapon for protection from hordes of gun toting criminals wanting to do you harm.
Federal registration - YES..No problem with that.
Firearm registration is actually illegal.
And quite a few of the responsible gun owners get bored with their $1,000 assault rifles and sell them to the highest bidder at a gun show with no questions asked.
I wouldn’t say they get bored with them. Some people will buy the parts, assemble them, and sell for a profit. Others might have found one cheap and resell it for a profit. Gun show in January I went to, someone had a Bushmaster ar-15 for sale for $1400; double what they were going for before Sandy Hook.
I took advantage of the panic buy a couple months ago and sold my Ruger 10/22 TakeDown model. I bought it for $289 just before Thanksgiving, took it to the range and found it to be very awkward and difficult to use due to the short stock on it. I had heard the 10/22 was getting hard to find and decided to put it up for sale for what I thought was an absurd price, $500. One guy didn’t even bother to try and negotiate with me, he agreed to the $500, and I sold it to him.
I don’t really blame gun makers for doing more and more AR-15 style rifles; it’s what’s popular right now. Kinda like the spoiler on the Corolla; doesn’t change the function of the car, it just makes it look sportier. Not everyone likes the look, but if lots of customers come in wanting a spoiler on their Corolla, then dealers will have more of those on the lot. Also, other makers might try it since the option might be popular with THEIR brand.