Hail to the Chief!

General Discussion
421

Yeah lets just have another law and that’ll take care of it. Make 30 round clips illegal and we’ll be ok. So 15 round clips are ok? Maybe 10? This is just kind of a silly arguement. In Israel, the reservists carry their M16’s with 30 round clips locked and loaded in public. Plus what they do is tape a 2nd clip onto the locked one. Reloading is quick as can be. So tape two 15 round clips together with a couple spare ones on your vest. Oh no, make black tape illegal. Outside of the terrorists, Israel is one of the safest places to walk around in and there are military weapons with full auto and semi auto settings all over the place carried by young kids. They just shoot terrorists not kindergartners.

This is just nuts the solutions that people come up with that probably have never even owned a BB gun-oh wait its already a felony to shoot a BB gun in town.

422

Well, I can only add that I’m a veteran and a gun owner. But I do think there need to be limits. I recognize the point that a crazy with an automatic can do more damage than a crazy with a 5-shot revolver. To me it’s about mitigating damage. And, as I said before, sreiously looking into root causes.

And, actually, I believe that more people carrying would better mitigate the damage as well as reduce crime. Assuming, of course, that they’re free to use the weapons to do so. We had a recent case here in NH where a fella by the name of Ward Bird waved a gun to protect his property from a neighbor who was persistantly refusing to leave, and he ended up in jail. A miscarriage of justice if there ever was one. Google “Ward Bird” for the story.

423

@bing
With all due respect, that is kind of a silly NRA stance on clip size. These are Army personell on the front lines. These reservist are in essence, nationally trained police/army personel and govt. trained security guards offering protection from Palistinian attack, not deranged citizens.

When they muster out they do not keep these weapons and all civilians that are allowed to carry a handgun are restricted to their training and have a registered weapon. They are seldom alowed more then one weapon and restricted to a permit based upon need. Ordinary civilians cannot be armed with these weapons…if you want to use Israel to debate clip size, we should at least do it with respect to to their entire stance on gun control. These same reservists drive tanks around too. Israel rightfully doesn’t think every citizen should have access to one.

The NRA does what it usually does, take things out of perspective or outright lies for the sake of arms maker’s profiteering. Please read.

424
But I do believe that more laws can help the situation.

Sadly, making more laws where we already cannot/do not enforce what we currently have now, is almost pointless

425

TSM,pretty much my feelings too,if you cant defend your home or person with 5or 6 shots,your probaly already screwed.
I’ve watched videos of automatic weapons and streetsweepers in meat lockers and let me tell you the results are disgusting,there has to be a line somewhere-Kevin

426

No point in continuing to belabor the same issues. The comments on the Israel article were telling.
Most people in the US own guns for sport such as hunting and target shooting. Its just fun. I do not own a weapon for protection and really don’t feel much of a need but I would not hesitate to grab the shot gun if need be until and if the police arrived. I wonder how the boys would have done though in WWII had they not been familiar with weapons for hunting and everyone had to be trained fresh. I wonder how the outcome in Europe would have been different had there been more private weapons. Japan did not want to invade through Mexico because there “would be a gun behind every blade of grass”. Just think we’re going down the wrong road.

Point was that everyone wants new ineffectual laws to make them feel better, not solve problems. Limit clip size? Doesn’t take long to replace a clip-like maybe 5 seconds. How many 5 round clips can you replace in the ten minutes it takes for the police to arrive? 100 round clips are prone to jamming and people in the know would not use them anyway in an attack. So really talking clip size, whether a rifle has a pistol grip, and so on is just silly because you can always just go to a pistol.

Holy cow don’t we have enough unenforcable laws now? Drug laws, driving laws, insurance laws, tax laws, building laws, drink size laws, Sunday closing laws, EPA laws, and we still think that passing more laws is the solution?

427

It’s pretty simple. Because of interstate gun sales, federal gun laws will WORK if we register guns nationally. Just relying on state laws doesn’t. Federal laws worked for slavery, equal rights amendment, full auto machine guns etc., it will work to regulate any weapon. We confuse federal with state laws ! There are very few federal gun laws.

428

State laws are subject to " hickification" eg; we a law here in VA,that says if you raise cows or livestock the neighboring landowners are responsible for half the fence to keep them contained.
Thats the trouble with laws,very few stupid laws are smitten from the books.You talking about a mess,when the local Yokels try to rub elbows with the Feds(Barney Fife on steriods)-Kevin

429

Bing, You Are Right On Target.

Where will this end ? That’s the problem with all this endless regulation. It doesn’t end. It just keeps tightening a choke hold on our freedom.

I’ve owned quite a few guns, since I was about 13 or 14. I still have a semi-automatic that I bought when I was a teen. Last I checked in the gun safe, that gun and the others don’t appear to have moved or assaulted anyboby. Same goes with my lever-action rifles, shotguns, and hanguns.

I think that if/when we tighten regulations and start restricting clips, etcetera, insane people will still commit hideous crimes with other guns, arson, knives, and whatever.

26 deaths in 10 minutes was a tradgedy exacerbated by choice of a modern high-powered, semi-automatic and high capacity clips, but like Bing asks, how long does it take to snap in a clip ? (Besides, I’d bet I could modify/make a clip to hold much more, working for an hour or two in my workshop.)

Let’s say that insane murderer didn’t have access to that particular weapon. If you know anything about guns then you know that a nut-job armed with a double barrel 12-gauge and a couple pockets full of double-aught shells could inflict a major masacre on a hunkered down, captive room or two full of people, in ten minutes.

Let’s say that because the perpetrator had to use a shotgun (sawed-off, perhaps) and not a semi rifle that he only managed to kill 24 or 22 or 19 or 15 victims and maim many others in ten minutes. Is that number acceptable ? What number is acceptable to you ? Would we then need a regulation to ban all but single-shots ? What number of people senselessly murdered at one time is acceptable ?

Where does the piling of regulations end ? I think it would be a better idea to concentrate on these nut-jobs and ways to protect kids in schools. These murderers prefer “gun-free” locations. After these murders I’m always amazed that there were all kinds of warning signs pointing to the criminal and yet little or nothing done to avert the resulting tradgedy.

CSA

430

What the heck. Let’s just arm everyone and have gun fights whenever. We lead the world in gun killings because we are UNREGULTED. Guys paint themselves into the " hate big govt." corner and can’t see the forest for the trees. The NRA tripe is alive and well. Can’t register all the guns…you know, the ones you need to fend off govt… Heck, I would be afraid of big govt. too if I voted for those who would take away women’s, minority rights and middle class wealth. You guys have a right to worry when your own is elected.

Piling on regulations…heck, there are practically NONE now State yes, federal very few…name me some federal regulations other then background checks, which are just a license dealer requirement, the machine gun regs, which work, and no guns in federal buildings. Oh, I guess it would be ok to allow anyone without a felony record to carry a gun on a plane. That’s great ! You can now carry in federal parks to defend yourself against Bamby.
Bring on the guns !

431

" Bring on the guns ! "

Sounds good. Too bad we have to take such measures, but in today’s screwed up society, it’s necessary. Many schools already have found “gun-free” zones to be ludicrous and an invitation to violence.

Utah schools, as one example, allowed guns in school and now they’re reinforcing this means of deterring school violence by bringing on the guns.

Relax a little. Lighten up. Don’t get all shook up. Defending our rights and our law abiding citizensis a good thing.

CSA

432

I would as long as major law enforcement agencies supported arming everyone…which they don’t.
You shouldn’t have a right to resell a gun to a felon or mentally unstable individual. If you buy a gun from a licensed dealer, fine. But like a car, it should be reregistered to the next owner. Simple as that, no rights are violated. You may have a right, but you also have a responsibility to see the weapon you owned, or sold, lost or stolen does not get into the wrong hands.
Btw, arming Columbine didn’t stop the massacre.

433

But it can go too far, we are overregulated in some cases,but I’m afraid as far as guns go not enough.It goes back to opportunity.I would hate to accidently shot the Pilot on a plane because I was bored on a long flight and was playing with my gun.Even if you had a shotgun in a crowded room I’m going to jump you when you pause to reload.but if you had a fearsome clip I would probaly keep my head low,we do not need but so much fire power.Overkill is overkill,guns are designed to kill things,I gave up my guns a longtime ago and signed a peacetreaty with the critters.
I know of so many tradgedies that have occured with guns acidentally(not to mention the intentional) there are many ways to die,but it doesnt have to be a metal pellet.
I’m really amazed at the number of my gun toting friends who concede there is no need for automatic weapons,large magazines or assualt weapons and believe me they get to kill plenty of game and they can hit what they are aiming at,Its probaly part due to my upbringing(revolvers,single shots,bolt action rifles etc) that I just dont have any sympathy for those who own AK-47s.M-16s or the semi auto things like AR-15s,etc,(some of these things are just to easy to convert to full auto).A neighbor of a few years back(I’m guessing survivalist mentality) had auto weapons and his son would come in on weekends and keep the neighborhood on edge shooting those things on through the night,so in a nutshell i do not like,full auto or assualt weapons either.
But,the right to own? Can you legally own Sarin or a Uranium bomb?Anyway I used to be a student of ballistics, weapons and all sorts of arcane and esoteric arts,so I do know a little about it.One day it hit me,still have both hands and senses intact,so it was time to stop,anyway each to his own,When the Lord comes again,I hope he puts some sense in peoples heads-Kevin

434

Not to continue on since we are just going to disagree anyway, but how pray tell, would gun registration have prevented the school shooting or the theater shooting. Gun registration worked well in England as a pre-cursor to confiscation which is why some of us are against it. The kid was refused a purchase twice, but he used his mother’s legally obtained rifle. The theater shooter would have had the weapon whether registered or not and to the NRA haters, the theater shooter was refused membership at the range because of his demeanor (many many ranges by the way require NRA membership to use). Also it appears the school had some inside scoop on his mental capacity and even reported it to the police, but nothing was done. The mother in Conn. was attempting to force the kid out on his own, thus setting him off.

Sorry but 20 years ago when we eliminated the general mental institutions and decided to main stream everyone into society for humanitatrian purposes, (at higher government cost by the way)we lost an important deterant to luniatics running wild. I’m not saying lock every strange person up in a place like “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”, but some type of country club type evaluation institution should not be overlooked in this whole mass hysteria to do SOMETHING.

As a side note, the police by and large have been against concealed carry permits, but everywhere they have been viewed as a right, crime has gone down. Would you not think the police would support reducing crime? No one is talking about the wild west but when a well balanced, felon free, military trained, experienced shooter, wants a gun for hobby or protection, why is this a problem? Trained people never shoot at an unidentified target and never pull a weapon as a threat but only to use. You also don’t walk around with a round in the chamber either.

435

For the the umpteenth time, gun registration does not prevent a specific instance, and neither does anything else. But, gun registration on the national level is effective in preventing the proliferation of weapons you do want to restrict. Please read above how guns proliferate. It’s the secondary sales and lack of responsibility to the firearm of the private seller with no criminal record that leads to gun proliferation. Of course NRA converts and non believers will never be convinced until they become a victim. The Brady family as well as Nancy Reagan were non believers at one time too. Please read all the federal machine gun registration requirements. I’m tired of repeating them. They work and can work for any weapon you choose to apply it to.

We know one thing for sure. Decreasing the number of guns available to criminals, the young, untrained and mentally in capable decreases gun violence. Gun makers are restricted to whom but not by volume, dealers are restricted to whom but not by volume. After that, anyone can sell anything to anyone, except for the full auto machine gun.

This is a fact. Law enforcement owes auto registration records available nation wide as one of the biggest factors in tracking and catching criminals. Gun registration would too. Argue against it all you want. But, you argue on the side of the gun lobbiest for profit motivation, the NRA leadership and the armed criminal. They fear federal gun registration and know that will increase their chances of getting caught and punished more severely then now.

436
I wonder how the boys would have done though in WWII had they not been familiar with weapons for hunting and everyone had to be trained fresh.

From personal experience…I NEVER shot a weapon before joining the Army. I was classified an expert marksman. Several good-old boys who owned guns all their life had a hard time just making the marksman. While it may help some…it doesn’t mean it helps all of them.

Plus one good old boy almost got us kill on patrol because he was too scared to fire. Firing at another human being is NOT an easy thing to do. Just because you’ve been around guns all your life doesn’t mean you’ll make a good soldier.

The NRA was established to promote marksmanship for the benefit of our military. While I’m sure it does help. I’m not convinced it’s everything.

As for most people owning guns for hunting and shooting at a range. I agree 100%. I have no problem with that. I don’t think banning certain guns is going to stop them from getting into the wrong hands. I do believe in registering all guns. And getting rid of the gun-show loopholes.

As for home protection. The BEST WEAPON you can have for home defense…is a shot gun. Far better then a pistol or riffle. With a shotgun you just have to shoot in the general direction of the person who’s attacking your. I don’t own any weapons. I don’t think a weapon is needed where I live. I have a good security system. And very low crime rate. I keep my doors locked at all time. Just common sense things. If I lived in Nebraska then I might have a gun. Not sure though.

437

A Proliferation Of Restrictive Government Regulations Is The Possible Solution To Recovering From The Doldrums Of The ObamaEconomy Problems !
Even The Talk Of More Regulations And Bans Causes Consumer Spending And Manufacterers’ Production To Go Through The Roof .

I remember trying to buy 100w light bulbs when the feds threatened to ban them in America. Shelves were empty as suppliers couldn’t keep up with demand.

Now it’s guns and ammunition. One customer alone ordered 32,000 rounds, worth close to $18,000 from a supplier.

I’ve forgotten all the instances of increased production of products and increased sales caused by government regulation and ban threats.
Help me out and give me more examples, please.

Could this not be the answer to our sorry economy (sorry because of the proliferation in regulations) ? Perhaps our government should threaten the sale and manufacture of more consumer goods, but allow those with the items to be “grandfathered” if they purchase prior to a certain future date. The number of items that freedom allows citizens to own in the U.S. is almost limitless ! People will spend when their freedom is at stake.

CSA

438
What the heck. Let's just arm everyone and have gun fights whenever.

It’s funny how anyone makes it out of a shooting range alive going by that mentality

We lead the world in gun killings because we are UNREGULTED. Guys paint themselves into the " hate big govt." corner and can't see the forest for the trees. The NRA tripe is alive and well. Can't register all the guns...you know, the ones you need to fend off govt.. Heck, I would be afraid of big govt. too if I voted for those who would take away women's, minority rights and middle class wealth. You guys have a right to worry when your own is elected.
Imagine all the paper work involved in registering every firearm out there. I could see people filing off the serial numbers of their guns out of spite. Unless it's a trust fund type of thing, it takes about 8 months to process the paper work with the ATF for class 3 items as it is; and there's so few transfers now. If you pile on all that extra paper work, it'll take to the next election to get anything done. Buybacks don't really work either. When you have a no questions asked buyback, what's keeping someone from breaking into houses and stealing people's guns and getting money from the buyback without any checking being done? Also, think about all that tax payer money being spent; money our government doesn't have. Though I guess they could turn around and resell the working guns(they'd make a video of them destroying non working guns to show the gun control people how good of a job they done) to Mexico so they can kill more of our border patrol agents.
I'm really amazed at the number of my gun toting friends who concede there is no need for automatic weapons,large magazines or assualt weapons ,so in a nutshell i do not like,full auto or assualt weapons either.
An assault weapon IS a full automatic; no semi automatics are involved, just the buzz word they made up back in 94 when they done the Clinton ban to make military looking weapons seem evil.
or the semi auto things like AR-15s,etc,(some of these things are just to easy to convert to full auto)
Please tell me how they do that.
With a shotgun you just have to shoot in the general direction of the person who's attacking your.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrxkjRXk7m8 guy has a bit of a mouth on him sometimes
439

The extremists in the pro gun movement are nearing religious cult fanaticism… And there are politicians who pay attention to them.

440

@bscar2
Just to respond to one misconception. Guns are registered at purchase with the buyer. They are just not saved in a national archive. If you think from there it’s impossible to track names and numbers, you have a slim knowledge of an ordinary modern lap top that could easily accommodate all the names and all the weapons in the US. From there it’s a matter of shuffling them as they change hands legally, now from one legal owner to another. If you are picked up with an unregistered weapon…the fines and resultant crime could eliminate you from ever purchasing or owning another gun legally. If you sell a registered gun, the buyer and seller are then responsible to re register it to eliminate you from further responsibility, provided he can be a legal owner. For those of you who think it doesn’t work, I’m still waiting for all the statistics on the full automatic used in criminal activity. They are in abundance, they are accessible to law abiding citizens…and yet they are seldom if ever used. Registration works.