Hail to the Chief!

General Discussion
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“I have great sympathy for low earners but, I believe it is a dangerous thing to have a population not contribute to the revenue stream.”

I agree. I think it would go a long way toward fixing our broken country which is presently divided in halves. One half pays all the taxes, gets very few benefits from it and the other half uses it up, calls the providers greedy and expects more.

When everybody’s sending their money to Uncle Sam then more people would be calling for smaller government, spending cuts, and lower taxes. Self responsibility is one thing this country was established on from the beginning.

CSA

262

We are all in this together, CSA. What are we to do with unskilled labor? Should we bring back debtor prisons? Can you think of some way to beat them into submission to work harder and longer to support themselves? The system is broken. It leaves too many with no reasonable options other than entitlements. The system needs repair. If we allow the decline to continue, the gap between the haves and have nots will take the US to third world status. And the louder Rush and O’Reilly and Hannity deny the growing class divide the more certain you can be that it is true.

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Steve Forbes advocated a 17% flat tax, for good or bad I dont know-Kevin

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Our politicians play a shell game with taxes and the propaganda wing for the right and left are quite tallented at throwing chosen facts and figures at us. Each proving without a doubt that they are totally on track while the other party is racing over a cliff. FICA taxes are more than 42% of total IRS income tax revenue yet there is ZERO FICA tax on income above $110,000. So how big is the lie that the right wing radio gurus give us about the top 10% pay 85% of the income tax? That lie is so totally laughable as to make it difficult to understand how thinking, informed people believe anything those hucksters babble over the air.

I was an “entrepreneur” for most of my life. I owned 2 different businesses and each was quite profitable. I was one of those hard working job creators that Fox News says they want to help. The IRS robbed me at a rate of 35% to 42% each year and handed the money to the lazy entitlement crowd and the Pentagon. Guess what. The Pentagon threw away more of my money than the lazy and the illegitimate mothers. But Rush and his friends don’t want to help the real small business owners. No, Rush wants to protect the jet set crowd and keep the tax bills going to working people and the real small business owners. If anyone wants a sales tax to make things fair, add a half of one percent tax to every financial transaction made on the stock markets and commodity markets. Doesn’t one half of one percent seem a pittance for the wealthy?

265

Dunno what the BFD is about plastic shopping bags.

A bag weighs what, 5g? That’s about 600 bags to the gallon, by weight. Even allowing for less than 100% conversion, that’s still the smallest of small beans…

266

One problem is that the very rich care deeply about their money. That’s how they got so rich. The rest of us aren’t nearly so involved in earning more money. Since they are so devoted to it, they are better organized and funded, to find ways to keep more of it.

267

Isn’t it ironic that all these people who pay no taxes have Republicans to thank for it? Wasn’t it the Republicans who passed the Bush tax cuts? Wasn’t it the Republicans who doubled the child tax credit?

With all the whining, you’d think it was the Democrats who created all these non-taxpayers.

268

Rod Knox…many thanks on reinforcing what I have been saying over and over again. NO ONE pays income tax on money they reinvest in their own business. Unless, you have one poor accountant. Why the left hasn’t made this point over and over again, is beyond me. That includes, how the small businessman gets skewed and the wealthy contributors get the carrots. I agree with the tax on stok profiteers.

CSA, why do I get the idea you know all the Fox talking points and think the poor are hording all the money. Son of a gun, wonder where it all went. BTW, EVERYONE pays taxes…like payroll tax including SS and Medicare (the very rich pay very little of this if at all) property, sales tax etc. about the only thing the poor get out of paying much is federal income tax, much of which which goes for the DEFENSE. But then, they are the ones who FIGHT AND DIE. That seems to be a good trade off !

Whitey…good points.

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The BFD about plastic bags is they arent good for the enviroment very little plastic is.I deplore plastic, I love plastic too-but I love biodegradeable also,why pump it out of the ground when you can grow it and give some poor sap a job?( Henry Ford was pro farmer,why arent we?)-Kevin

270

Kevin…Steve Forbes also advocates that many earnings including capital gains be exempt from any tax. That means that many of the rich including Forbes, could pay nothing for most if not all of their income. These jokers are in business of making money. The sad truth is, money is not made out of thin air. It moves from one person to another. During the last recession , the Forbes of this world made lots of mony while the middle class got it stuck somewhere. Now, some jokers are touting the poor are to blame and made the most money…huh?

With the top 1 % having over 40% of the financial wealth and the lower 80% only 5%, which generally indicates tax potential, we are asking each to pay the same rate in flat rate taxes…you have got to be s…ing me. This assumes that Forbes gets to keep all of his money, which in essence will happen with all of the top 1%.
And now, we are arguing about a measly 4% increase. Guess who the big lie donners are to Fox Network propaganda ?

271

Well Dag you and I both know that you cant play with a cool hand forever,sooner or later the Chickens will come home to roost.People can blast Clinton all they want to,those were a good 8 yrs.I used to sit and listen to Rush moan and bellyache for hours,it didnt take long for my higher centers to kick in.Propaganda is propaganda,the rich conservatives are not necessarily your friends,if there was no God then we would be Gods-but I cannot go blast some poor creature to Hell,because of a Divine mandate.Because that is not God as I understand Him(thats right Liberals,I think God has Male attributes) and I believe in Yahweh and Jesus,not Ares.We must share and take responsibility for what we do(so it goes)Kevin

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"CSA, why do I get the idea you know all the Fox talking points and think the poor are hording all the money. "

Dagosa, That’s Pretty Funny . . .
. . . insinuating my knowing all the Fox talking points. I must watch Fox News, regularly, eh ? Wrong.

I don’t try and guess where you dig up your ideas.
I don’t fit most molds you want to put me into. I don’t have cable. I don’t have satellite. I don’t get AM radio. I live out in the middle of nowhere. I get 4 TV channels over the air waves, no Fox, no CNN, no whatever the other ones are. I do get an eight page local rag and read several local, and state newspapers on my dial-up connection PC. I live well within my means and don’t budget for all that crap I don’t have that I mentioned above. I don’t expect anybody to help me pay my bills so I can’t have everything.

I don’t have talking points, but what I have is what I live and observe. I don’t hold anything against rich or poor. I don’t want the rich folks money. I certainly don’t think poor people are hording money. If I want more money, I’ll make my own by working for it.

"BTW, EVERYONE pays taxes… "
Right ! Thanks. However, not everybody gets their tax dollars back along with some of other people’s dollars, too. I’m one. That’s the real issue. There’s food stamps (I think it’s approaching 1 in 6 or 1 in 7 Americans), rent assistance, heat assistance, phone assistance, and you tell me what else. I don’t know. I do know way more than half the kids in our local schools get “free lunch” (free to them, but more expensive to us because we pay extra) and sports are paid for them. Then my daughter complains to me because those kids have nicer cars, better cell phones, more expensive prom dresses, etcetera. How does that work ?

I could go on, but you’ve got your views and I’ve got mine. It still comes down to a situation where the U.S. government is going to have to stop spending so much, do major, major cutting, and I’m not talking defense. National defense is job 1. You can’t confiscate enough taxes to keep us from becoming Greece.

CSA

273

I have a very hard time believing that you don’t get your views from Fox news. You’ve quoted MANY things verbatim from Fox news. If you’re NOT watching it directly…then you’re getting your ideas from people who have.

That's the real issue. There's food stamps (I think it's approaching 1 in 6 or 1 in 7 Americans), rent assistance, heat assistance, phone assistance, and you tell me what else.

If you’re so much against any kind of subsidies…then WHY do you constantly support the people who for the past 30+ years have been methodically moving jobs out of the US to countries like China/India?? You say you want these people off of government help…but in the same breath you also say you support the people who want to ship good paying jobs overseas so YOU can buy things a little cheaper.

I too want people off government subsidies. But just by saying it doesn’t make it happen. How about NOT giving tax brakes to companies that send jobs overseas.

do major, major cutting, and I'm not talking defense. National defense is job 1.

Bush is no longer president. Obama is REPAIRING the damage relationships we had in the middle east. As long as we’re NOT at war then cutting defense is a GOOD thing.

How is supporting a military base in Japan or Korea GOOD for national defense? You mean to tell me we those bases are VITAL to our national defense?? Just by moving those bases to the US will save us BILLIONS.

274

The tax cut lie.

that so many have taken :hook, line and sinker."

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Oh, And Another Thing. Sorry, I Don’t Watch Video Clips As It Takes Forever For My Dial-Up Modem Computer To Download Them And They Often Won’t Work. Also, I Can’t Stream Anything On This Machine, Either. Did You Notice I Couldn’t Even Post Anything Here For A Year When They Improved The Site ?

Call me a liar if it makes you feel better, I don’t mind, but I’m just telling you how it is.

By the way, I don’t think the Democrats, nor the Republicans are going to do much to fix our deficit or our debt, but rather just kick the can down the road some more. We’re rapidly approaching a time when it just won’t kick any farther. We had a better chance with Romney/Ryan, but only a slightly better chance.

Mike, I have to tell you. I’m not the only one who feels this way with views similar to mine. I think it might depend on whether folks are takers or contributors and/or where they live. There are lots more of me (majority) in my locale.

CSA

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Mike, I have to tell you. I'm not the only one who feels this way with views similar to mine. I think it might depend on whether folks are takers or contributors and/or where they live.

That’s the attitude that got Romney in trouble. Thinking that everyone who doesn’t believe as you do are on take handouts. I’ll pretty much guarantee you that my tax burden is twice what yours is. I’m in the top 2% income bracket. The high-end of the bracket that doesn’t have enough investment income to have a 15% tax rate instead of a 35% tax rate. You can believe what you want…doesn’t mean it’s the truth. I don’t follow the talking heads. I’ve actually done research. Do yourself a favor…and actually look up the facts…NOT just follow.

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Using the space on the blank page, I have to say that the older I get, the more I end up in the middle on the fence. I have seen evidence of both the left and the right over the years so really have to agree with both sides to some extent. I end though when people think the whole issue is one or the other, rather than trying to find something in the middle the works.

I’ve seen the elderly trying to get by on little with the water instead of milk on the corn flakes etc. The young trying to survive on low wage dead end jobs or trying to pay the high cost of education, etc. Listened to the European gurus who think their system will prevent a repeat of the WW II condidtions. Then I’ve watched the influx of Somoli groups come in expecting the town, already under economic stress, to provide all kinds of medical and assistance programs for them while they work at the low wage turkey plant. Then collect the $800 a month rent subsidy to live in the new duplexes being built by eager investors. Now the public schools with 40% free lunch and 20% non-English speaking students being thrown to the wolves for not producing high test scores. In Minneapolis, I watched as it was over-run by folks coming in from Chicago to collect better benefits than they could get at home. Now the police are under siege.

We could go on and on and on with examples from both sides and everyone has a good point. All of these issues need to be addressed but the answer is neither to leave the union, let everyone fend for themselves, or provide a guaranteed income for everyone like in Holland. I think its safe to say that the deficit and the general economy was a disaster under Bush, and remember the Trojan Horse under Ronney? On the other hand, the EPA, ICE, HEW, etc. have certainly cost us a lot on the social end. So lets just try to find some middle ground in line with our economic realities and our social commitments.

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Bush, and remember the Trojan Horse under Ronney? On the other hand, the EPA, ICE, HEW, etc. have certainly cost us a lot on the social end. So lets just try to find some middle ground in line with our economic realities and our social commitments.

I’m more then happy to try to find middle ground. I firmly believe that there’s way too much spending at the Federal level…Said it MANY times. What I find appalling is that there doesn’t seem to be ANY wiggle room from the extreme left and extreme right. The right wants NOTHING but cuts to social programs and zero increase in taxes (including the top .1% who’s tax rate is around 15% or less). The Left seems to want to only increase taxes.

280

It does seem somewhat apparent that each party sees its own self interest as its first priority. The apathy, self-indulgence, myopic single issue concerns and lack of credible information leaves the public falling into single issue mobs. The “Right to life” crowd wants to force rape victims to carry the baby while “women’s libbers” want the freedom to get an abortion after 8 months with no questions asked.

Why do we let the outrageous from the fringes rule?

Why do we not have a reasonable, objective source for the news?

And why do I find more intelligent, civil debate on internet forums than on Fox, CNN, or a stage full of wannabe presidents?