As a shop owner for many years I never objected to mechanics working on cars “on the side” at their home and occasionally they brought their own and family members’ cars into the shop after hours with my permission.
I can’t imagine a profitable shop having mechanics with no work to do, though. If a mechanic spends 2 hours working on a side job who is dealing with the work orders on his board?
And personally I also consider such work theft unless the owner of the business allows it. But it would seem that the politics and hierarchy of the business are likely in serious disarray.
Tax evasion is a crime for one who does not report income; I have made no income. Further, such work would be considered done under implied independent contract (exempt from all but personal income tax). Is he claiming his side job income? I don’t know (If someone paid you $40 to help them do a brake job at home would you claim it? Probably not.). Even further, my only liability is to pay state sales tax; who’s to say I won’t pay the state sales tax at the end of the year (ever buy something online and not charged sales tax? Did you immediately log it and report it to your state at years end?). Also, you better watch those cash tips you leave for the bar maid or server at your local burger shop as well. You could be involved in tax evasion
My point in this post was to gain some insight into how a shop (specifically a dealer shop) works or could work. Perhaps the mechanics here are paid flate-rate and allowed to do as they please when no other work is in. By the way, it was a particularly odd service area. It’s a huge/new/fancy dealership, but the service lot was full of all kinds of cars (hot rods, clunkers, small company fleets etc.). Cars were also going in and out of the bay after closing hours. I asked if the lot would be locked so as to pick up my car later; he said “no it stays open, guys work in here all night.”
I agree that the guy is taking a huge risk with his livelihood if in fact he is doing this under everyone’s nose. What I don’t agree with is the claim to dishonesty on my part. I had no contact or contract with the dealership itself–my quote came from a different dealership and was only done to gauge the market for the work. I would never have had the work done at a dealership, so they didn’t lose a customer nor a potential customer. Theft? Well perhaps the use of the dealerships capital (lift, electricity, building), but again we don’t know the details. And as I said the parts were paid for from the parts department.
For the record I am a former police officer. It wasn’t for me, particularly the part of aiding the process of putting people in prison for non-violent crimes. I did enjoy giving jerks 10-point tickets for driving like maniacs though.
@Demo_Beta, I’m not saying that you’re a thief in any way. The mechanic is and while this is likely being done without the service manager’s knowledge, the SM is a thief if he knows about it or is having his palm greased.
If the mechanic is pocketing cash without claiming it on taxes then he’s guilty of tax avoidance or evasion.
Based on your post, this dealership sounds like full blown anarchy. Eventually something is going to come back and bite somebody. It may even be the owner of the dealership if a backdoor repair goes sour and someone sues or worse; if there are fatalities or injuries due to a botched brake job, wheel lugs left loose, ball joint nut not tightened, inoperative airbags, etc.
I wonder if @Demo would feel slighted if the mechanic had used his car to carry another customer to their job in his car without his permission. And what if the mechainc had wrecked his car and injured the passenger? Demo would be liable for all the costs and liability.
What I don't agree with is the claim to dishonesty on my part.
Then I suggest in future you refrain from comments such as
This doesn't weigh on my conscience at all (especially not for taxes, I was in the military and gave them more than they could ever repay).
because that makes it sound like you know there’s tax avoidance, a crime, going on as well as other crimes, and you support it because you are ex-military and angry about having served the government levying the tax.
Other comments you made in your OP suggest that you know full well this is a shady under the table deal. Being an ex cop further suggests that, because unless you were a particularly lousy one you learned how to spot shady characters, and your story is full of them… And yet you plan to use them again.
As a cop I suspect you would have arrested me if you found that I had been knowingly buying stolen goods. The morality of this situation is likely the same - Whatever the reason for you having to meet the guy out back and secretly text him to get your car worked on, it’s a guarantee that someone somewhere in all of this is stealing something, whether it’s actual parts or company time or both.
Being a knowing party to theft is a legitimate crime, and morally-upstanding citizens do not commit legitimate crimes even if they calculate a low likelihood of being caught or prosecuted.
At any rate, the opinions of the others are, I think, good; you’re having your car worked on by a highly suspicious person in a highly suspicious situation. Even dismissing the personal morality aspect of it, you’re taking a huge risk, and are left only able to hope that this guy’s personal do-not-cross line is set before he puts bad parts on your car and at best costs you a lot of money to get it fixed again.
I was being a little facetious with that comment in response to the goofy assertion that tax law is being violated. If you or anyone else is hung up on the notion of a crime being committed, then by all means post the precedent rulings or US/State codes. Bad employee probably, criminal not.
I have the sales receipt for the parts, btw. And if the shop pays flate-rate, what exactly was stolen?
This also wasn’t as shady as you are imagining. We stood in the lot and talked for at least five minutes. It also has to be the best customer service experience I’ve had during any repair. He explained exactly what he was going to do, did it in an incredibly timely manner (I think the dealer booked the job at 4 hours), and all the removed parts were bagged and boxed in my car upon pickup. No grease on the steering wheel or gunk on the floor mats either, which seems to be standard most times. He did a 2 mile test drive and told me to call him if there were any issues.
I was only “nervous” in this scenario at the prospect of this guy getting in trouble.
Just a note: I can generate a receipt for something I sell you, and then give you something other than what you thought you were buying too. It’s especially easy when its a car part that the purchaser isn’t likely to ever look at, or know the difference if he did. So, all you know is that you paid full price for brand new car parts, and you have a receipt for such, but you do not know that those brand new car parts actually found their way to your car.
his also wasn't as shady as you are imagining. We stood in the lot and talked for at least five minutes.
So? If the SM is in on it, then the mechanic could talk to you for half an hour and not get caught. It’s very suspicious that they didn’t have you just drive it in the garage like everyone else. Your ex-cop spidey sense should have been tingling when he had you sneak around back and text him.
If you or anyone else is hung up on the notion of a crime being committed, then by all means post the precedent rulings or US/State codes
If he stole the parts, or fraudulently told you that you were getting new parts and then he put used junkyard parts in your car, he committed a crime. This should be obvious.
As far as working under the table goes, I don’t know where you live, but here’s Minnesota’s law regarding it (first one) Sec. 289A.63 MN Statutes
I’m glad to see that you were being facetious - unfortunately, such nuances of communication can be difficult to get across on a text-only medium like a message forum - hence everyone thinking you were supporting criminality.
I was ripped off by the university where I was employed. I wrote a grant that was funded. In the grant I included funds to replace me for one class so that I could carry out the project. Instead, the research office appointed a faculty member from another department to the project where that dept. didn’t ask for funds. When I objected, a university administrator got huffy and dared me to try to fight him on the issue. I responded to him by saying “If an ass is braying at me from the field, I don’t feel an overwhelming urge to bray back”. I heard Sipowitz boss, Lt. Fancy,use that line on NYPD Blues. Just because I have been cheated is no reason to get down in the gutter with the person doing the cheating. However, I never wrote another grant through my institution. I collaborated with a former colleague at another institution and we ran the grants through her college with funds going to my department for my time.
I feel the same. way about a service department. I won’t cheat them and if they cheat me, I’ll take my business elsewhere.
Again, reporting income for tax liability is something that is done at the end of the year. If he doesn’t claim his side job work as income, then that’s on him; most people don’t or at least not all of it. Persons who work on tips are the prime example. It has nothing to do with me or the fact that the work was done at the dealership. Sales tax was paid on the parts. I am liable for sales tax on the labor. I think the last report I saw stated that 2% of people claim sales tax for online purchases (i.e. taxes that were not collected at the time of sale). Further I’m not ever sure that this would be inclusive under sales tax; there are “garage sale” and “favor” exemptions in most jurisdictions. But I don’t think that’s the issue; your opinion wouldn’t change if I wrote an $8 check to the state right now.
As far as generating fake receipts or parts not being installed as stated, well that can happen when having any service done. But going down that route in this scenario is a rabbit hole. If anything the work was probably done with more attention to detail as he may not be able to afford someone calling the dealer and complaining.
This was my first experience with a side job and I wanted to share the story because it is/was a bit strange and surreal. But let’s stop all these absurd notions of crimes being committed. While what he’s doing is a bit more flagrant, if you’ve ever done anything but the specifics of your job while on the clock (sent an e-mail, showed up a few minutes late from lunch, personal phone call, chatted at the water cooler, cigarettes, etc.) then you are just as guilty of stealing wage hours and facility capital as he in respect to any ethical notion.
Demo, make up your mind; is the tech committing a crime or not? You can’t have it both ways.
My bet is that if you didn’t already know that you’re an accessory, that what you’re doing is wrong, you would have had no reason to write your initial post. You didn’t get the support you wanted to ease your conscience, so you’ve dug your heels in and claimed you’re doing nothing wrong, even claiming that your veteran’s status give you the moral right to cheat.
Clearly you’re not man enough to admit any of this to us. But you know what you’re doing is wrong. IMHO you’re also a disgrace to honest cops everywhere.
Hey, I have an idea, why don’t you have this discussion down at the station and let us know how your fellow officers feel? Should be enlightening.
I look at it like this: if the mechanic is cheating his employer, he might also be cheating me by installing inferior parts, taking shortcuts that compromise the safety of my car, etc. I would rather pay .more and have the work backed up by a good shop.
Well, cops have been in the media lately for all sorts of criminal transgressions against the populace… Perhaps this attitude shouldn’t be terribly surprising. At least he didn’t choke-hold anyone or murder some poor homeless guy in the Albuquerque foothills…
@Demo_Beta, other than potential tax issues I don’t see that the guy is committing any kind of crime; not even a misdemeanor.
However, he is unethical in what he’s doing. Service work is all about time and space. That guy is on the employer’s clock, using the employer’s electricity/service bay, an employee discount on parts, and if he’s one of those who receive a guarantee of some sort from his employer then he’s also stiffing the employer by drawing some pay for working on your car.
Let me ask this theoretical Demo_Beta. Assume for the sake of discussion you owned a lawn care service. You discover that one or more of your employees working on your clock time were doing some lawn care side jobs and using your equipment and fuel to do it.
Would you be ok with what they’re doing if you found out about it?
No I wouldn’t. If I owned a dealership I wouldn’t be happy either. But I don’t. There is a little bit of personal interest in all things where we bend the rules; obviously we all bend them to different amounts. If someone had an electrician at their house to do work and was quoted a $2500 repair from the company, but the electrician there said “hey, I know that’s a lot, I could come by Sunday and knock it out for $500,” I think most people would stick out their hand and say “DEAL!”
I’m not claiming this isn’t somewhat shady, but in my book and where I’m from, it’s not that big of a deal. I don’t go around looking for these kind of set ups or opportunities, it’s just the way it worked out in this case. I actually vetted the guy as best I could and didn’t know where the work was going to be performed until the day before. Money is also tight at the moment, so I save it where I can.
Anyway, this has turned into some strange legal/ethical argument (and if I can say so as politely as possible, by persons who haven’t a clue as to what they are talking about) that I’m not really interested in. If you don’t like it that’s fine and by all means say so, just don’t try to drag me into la la fantasy land. But I suppose I got my answer; this is as strange of a setup as I though it was.
I have some related experience concerning this subject. When I lived in Southern California in 1975 My boss’s Son and family rented a house next door to and owned by a Buick dealership. They were moving and I was wanting to move from my apartment. They gave the dealership owner a great recommendation and I was able to move into the 2 BR separate single garage house with no deposit. No lease. $100 per month. It was nearly free! A few months later That job relocated from LA area to San Diego. I informed my landlord that although I didn’t want to I would have to move. He asked if I had ever worked on cars. I related working on my cars and at a service station which both involved fairly advanced projects although my only formal training was 1 year of high school auto shop. He said he had an opening coming up for an “exhaust specialist”. Would I be interested? Yes, yes, yes! Following 2 days of evaluation by the current exhaust specialist (on my time) I was hired! During my orientation side job policy was explained in detail. It was not allowed period. First offense? Termination! This applied to “my” garage which was dealership property. In 1979 I was working for a Trimline franchise installing vinyl tops and body side molding. I hate vinyl tops but a job is a job. A childhood buddy inquired if he could get a discount on side molding for his Datsun 260 Z? I said I would ask my boss. The boss said “sure I’ll give your buddy the dealer discount.” That was 40% off retail. Since 90% of our business was with dealers it was not a significant revenue loss and I didn’t risk losing my job.
I don’t live on a different planet, Demo, but I sure hang out with a much more ethical crowd.
May others in your life show the same lack of ethics toward you. May they get away with as much at your expense as they can. If it upsets you when others engage in unethical behaviors toward you, don’t get mad… just look in the mirror.
". . .other than potential tax issues I don’t see that the guy is committing any kind of crime; not even a misdemeanor.
However, he is unethical in what he’s doing. " @ok4450 hit it on the head. The legality isn’t the important issue, personal integrity is…
Toward the end of my career, my department chair came to me with a problem that didn’t involve me. He said, “I am coming to you for your opinion because you are the most ethical person I know”. To me, this meant more than any extra money I could have made by double dipping on my employer’s time whether it was legal or not. To me, my personal integrity is everything. My dad was a very honest person and his legacy meant more to me than any amount of inheritance he left me. I would like to be remembered the same way by my son.
