@“the same mountainbike” We’ve always somewhat butted heads on this forum. I feel that you wouldn’t have really brought anything up if it was someone else that mentioned it. But I will apologize for a political comment that likely does belong elsewhere, as Carolyn also pointed out.
To turn back to cars, my main complaint with anyone importing Chinese vehicles, and a lot of other Chinese goods is really the low quality overall and the way it slights the US economy. Yes, the auto market is a global one with US companies outsourcing manufacturing overseas and “foreign” companies manufacturing in the US. It’s more of a melting pot every day. I’m not what I would call a ‘false patriot’ where I think everything must be made in the US. Quite the contrary really, as the global market is vastly different than it was half a century ago. But I do think that lessening dependence on the juggernaut that is China, whose leadership would be happy to take whatever they can away from us, can only be a good idea.
Even as regulated as the auto industry is, and as transparent as GM wants us to believe it is these days, I have concerns over quality and safety. Some time back, Chinese cars bursting into flames made the news. The hot-selling “Hoverboard” toy is under scrutiny for exploding batteries and rider safety. Cheap, unsafe counterfeit power adapters and batteries from China pose safety risks, other toys from China were found with lead paint, and we’ve all bought tools and electronics from China that have been very hit-or-miss for quality and longevity. With GM historically cutting corners too (not that they’re alone), GM importing cars from China makes me shudder more than others did over the Fiat/Chrysler merger.
What’s still uncertain to me, and perhaps hasn’t even been determined yet, is whether GM will be importing and “badging” Chinese cars or manufacturing GM cars in China. My impression so far is that it’s the former, but either way I guess we’ll all find out together. And, either way, the quality and price will determine the venture’s fate.
The Japanese made their way in the market and are doing great. The Koreans did the same. I do not see why the Chinese should not be able to do it. And this is GM building cars there, I am sure they will eventually import their own brands here at some point.
Maybe when the communist party in China is dead and buried, can we trust China to treat their workers halfway decently and build good cars . . .
By the way, guys . . . I don’t have a stupid i-phone. So I’m not waiting in line to buy a product from a factory where the workers commit suicide in droves. I’m still waiting for my old flip-phone to kick the can. Then I’ll go phone shopping
Isn’t Volvo owned by the Chinese these days? Or did I miss something? (It was brought up in another thread that some of us, me included, have trouble keeping up with who owns what anymore)
I did not mean to imply that you or anyone here was waiting in line for a new iPhone, just pointing out that I often see on tv people lined up waiting for them. I have a no-name phone that says ‘cricket’ on it, for all I know it was made under the same horrible conditions; I hope not; its one of those things I try not to dwell on because its not like I’m really in a position to do anything about it; and there are so many things to be upset about. . . you know. . . whaddya gonna do? Sure I’d be willing to pay another $10 or $20 for the phone to improve the workers wages, but the money probably wouldn’t get to them, it would go to the CEO’s bonus fund, most likely.
@oblivion Your statement of “the low overall quality of Chinese goods” is a wild exaggeration. If you only shop at Walmart and buy the cheapest stuff there, I might just partially agree with you.
Just in my office here I have 2 computers, 2 printers, two monitors, a multifunction phone, and Wireless routers that are all reliable. long lived and better than US products used to be. They’re all made in China.
Germans used to make fun of Japanese products too.
The VP of purchasing for IBM is an American who lives in China.
Most of our audio and video theater is Chinese made and works very well. If you own a GE or RCA TV made in China I would agree that these are not top quality products, but Walmart sells a lot of them. The quality levels for these is set by the owners, Thomson Electronics of France!
The only shoddy Chinese product we own is a cast aluminum bird bath that does not sit level. It’s no doubt made by a family company and not subject to stringent quality controls.
When it comes to cars, the Chinese are on a steep learning curve and will quickly surpass Chrysler and Fiat and, like the Koreans, in ten years will have very good cars.
I grew up in Europe, and England and Germany were the industrial juggernauts then. Nothing ever stays the same.
Good points, @Docnick, and I don’t want to sound like a xenophobe or I’ve got my head stuck in the sand but does EVERYTHING have to be made in China? The hollowing out of the US industrial base makes me sad on so many levels.
To quote @oblivion " But I do think that lessening dependence on the juggernaut that is China, whose leadership would be happy to take whatever they can away from us, can only be a good idea." Others have pointed out China’s rampant theft of patents / intellectual property, pirating of copyrighted movies and music and software, the near weekly news stories about the Chinese hacking into our Pentagon and Military top secret networks, they add lead to the toys, toothpaste, and even dogfood they export to us. Not to mention all the Treasury bills they buy. China is an authoritarian police state. They are not our friends. The Chinese take a long view. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that the “Communist Party” in China has a 100 year plan to achieve world domination. At the rate we’re going, America is going to be completely owned by China in another 40 years. Sorry. Rant Over.
Everything does not have to be made in China. You will increasingly find products made in Viet Nam, Laos, Indonesia, India, and even Pakistan or Afghanistan if they ever get their political problems straightened out in a way that allows people to work in non-agricultural jobs. Actually, Intel has a large factory in Viet Nam. The microprocessor in your computer may have come from that plant.
Like I said before the goal should be developing internal markets rather than exports for manufactured goods. We do export a lot of farm products but because we have the climate and land for it where others don’t. We can build cars and TVs here as well as anyone.
@jtsanders Agree. Chinese companies are now subcontracting to other Asian countries with cost-effective wages, i.e. reliable and quality labor supply with a good local infrastructure.
I have owned watches made in the USA, Switzerland, Japan, China and The Philippines. The $65 Timex Triathlon made in an abandoned Navy base in the Philippines has so far lasted me 15 years, longer than any previous watch.
As time moves on we will have stuff made in many parts of the world with competitive quality labor and stable governments. But don’t hold your breath for being able to buy a computer made in Argentina! Or anything made in Greece other that feta cheese and olive oil.
I agree jt.
The real question that remains is can the Chinese make cars of good quality and reliability… cheaper… … and if they’re doing so under GM management, will GM management allow it?
That last statement gets complicated, because if the Chinese are building to GM designs and standards, will GM allow their engineers and manufacturing people to design and build cars of quality and reliability. Give the best assemblers in the world poor designs, and/or withhold from the manufacturing people the resources necessary to build a good vehicle, and the output will be junk.
@thesamemountainbike
I agree jt.
The real question that remains is can the Chinese make cars of good quality and reliability.... cheaper... .... and if they're doing so under GM management, will GM management allow it?
That last statement gets complicated, because if the Chinese are building to GM designs and standards, will GM allow their engineers and manufacturing people to design and build cars of quality and reliability. Give the best assemblers in the world poor designs, and/or withhold from the manufacturing people the resources necessary to build a good vehicle, and the output will be junk.
From what I have read that is exactly the issue that torpedoed Saturn. As GM was downsizing they dumped a bunch of mid-level managers onto Saturn who brought with them their “cheap is priority” mantra and sabotaged all the high quality product procurement practices that made Saturn a top quality car.
China is like old Japan, some things are awesome, for the price some are garbage. Have a lot of zip ties, sold at a box store, tie does not stick! Replaced China screen door knob, lifetime warranty as spring action stopped working, sorry we no longer carry that upc, not covered. Miss quality products. That applies to car parts also.
don t buy a Chinese chain binder they caused chain binders of that typr to be banned here because of their inferiority. now the stupid ratchet type are required.
we had 50 yr old standard chain binders that worked as good as the day they were made. they locked tight. the red Chinese crappy ones were useless from day one. I refused to use them. they would not lock
they were inexpensive tho… what a bargain…
I do not know specifically if Mexican car assembly plants have unions. However, except for what can happen with corruption, Mexico actually has very strong labor laws already, which cover much of the usual union issues.
For example, any worker can complain to the Labor agency who will evaluate his pay, and if it is below Federal standards, the employer is ordered to pay to the level.
A friend is a very successful machinist. I am talking numerically controlled machines, and single items selling for over $100,000 US dollars. His first employee, he trained to run them and he thought he was paying very well. The punk went to the government and filed a complaint. Raul told him, “I thought I was paying you well, but I will pay whatever they say I must.”
The government investigator said he was paying more than the correct rate for job, including skill level and hours worked, etc. So, Raul cut his pay… Seriously!
He threw a tantrum and said he was going to leave and get a better job with no pay. A year later, he came crawling back, begging for a job, any job. Raul told him he had had enough of the troubles he had caused.
There are even laws on termination pay levels. And, pay for holidays. I am told some employers find the labor laws to be excessively strict.
