I dunno if profits come before anything else like life, limb, and liberty, but lets face it, without profits none of us gets paid
Profits is AFTER you pay your employees. There are many not-for-profit companies around where the employees get paid very well every week.
The profit motive for seperating the winners and losers is certainly a much better approach than government edict
I agree with that.
Profits is AFTER you pay your employees. There are many not-for-profit companies around where the employees get paid very well every week.
I think both of you are right on… In the final analysis, it’s gross vs net profits and the amount of gross profit you (company) get, pretty much determines everything else, including the success or failure of a company. Non profits whose expences would not include obligations to those items that defined them as non profit, you are absolutely right,have employees that can get paid VERY WELL indeed, and in the case of both, even if the “ship is sinking”.
This is where I feel all energy companies in these evolutionary times are even considering loss of some gross profits, as long as they can pay their overhead, just to “set themselves up” as a major player later on. It’s a monopoly game on steroids. and the consumer is being played like banjo. Enjoy the good “strokes” while you can.
I think both of you are right on... In the final analysis, it's gross vs net profits and the amount of gross profit you (company) get, pretty much determines everything else, including the success or failure of a company.
Gross or Net profit are both calculated AFTER payroll.
Any company that’s determining profit before payroll has no right being in business. Overhead for software companies is almost ALL PAYROLL. I worked for a few start-ups that was looking to get investor funding. Based on revenue (NOT SUBTRACTING PAYROLL) we were showing a profit. Subtract payroll and we had a $500k annual loss every year. Try to sell the first figure to any investor or bank saying you’re profitable and see how far it gets you. Possibly right to jail since that would be fraud.
Gross or Net profit are both calculated AFTER payroll.
Ok…forget I said I agree with the both of you…you the man ;-()
“This is where I feel all energy companies in these evolutionary times are even considering loss of some gross profits, as long as they can pay their overhead, just to “set themselves up” as a major player later on. It’s a monopoly game on steroids. and the consumer is being played like banjo. Enjoy the good “strokes” while you can.”"
Here we go, the “prices appear out of control but it’s a sinister plan” idea. How about the OBVIOUS conclusion that the market worked, supply exceeds demand, so prices are dropping. No conspiracy required. If folks are surprised that OPEC wants the world to continue to use oil, they shouldn’t be. And now we know the price that allows huge volumes of added production-about $100/bbl, maybe less.
Ok..forget I said I agree with the both of you...you the man ;-()
No Dag…you were wrong when you said we were both right. Bing clearly stated that payroll was AFTER profit…and it’s NOT. We both CAN’T be right.
Here we go, the “prices appear out of control but it’s a sinister plan” idea.
Here we go, “a typical defense of oil when it isn’t necessary, rebuttal.”
Tell that to automotive manufactures who continually use prices to stimulate growth and make themselves relevant later on. I suppose when free market engages in normal practices it’s OK ? They don’t all just wait until their product gathers dust on the shelves before they decide. Tell that to any one who makes an “introductory offer”.
Underpricing the competition to control markets is alive and well. It happened around here to encourage oil use for local electricity generation and it happened with natural gas later. The prices all took a jump when the market was secure and less competitive. IT IS A FREE MARKET STRATEGY. It’s happening now here with the big push for heat pumps and lowering their electric rates to encourage it’s use, then, after the market is established, like elswhere, the rates go up again.
Unless of course you don’t believe the middle east oil producers aren’t smart enough to think of the same things the free world can…or you think the egg came first and putting more oil on the market dropped the world price instead of the other way around. Either way, it’s over sensitivity to an obvious situation.
If folks are surprised that OPEC wants the world to continue to use oil, they shouldn’t be.
and here, you “seem” to agree at least for them. Well, I thank you. Now, just apply that to American and Canadian interest too…treat their efforts equally and we will completely agree.
If folks are surprised that OPEC (and all oil interests) want the world to continue to use oil, they shouldn’t be. So “No conspiracy required.” just the market in action…enjoy it while you can !
Could OPEC be looking at oil prices as a means to de-escalate political/religious hostilities in the Mid East while simultaneously kicking the legs out from under exporation in the Bakken fields? Who might be in collusion with the UAE in such an effort? But who would call it conspiracy?
The supposition that there was only 20 years of oil left in the 1970s was probably correct, because the guess was based on existing reserves that were economically viable to recover. While tar sands may have been known, no one in their right mind would go after oil that had to be sold at $100/bbl to be a money maker. But 40 years later, it has been viable. And then there was the oil that was out there and unknown. But now we know about a lot more oil. If someone were to to a similar calculation today, they would still miss the unknown reserves wherever they are. 40 years from today, someone will probably accuse them of not knowing doodly about oil reserves.
Black Gold ! Also, I have packages and packages of incandescent bulbs which will some day all be replaced. I am going to sell them for as little as possible before people discover there is a better way. Any takers ?
Me talking “forget I said I agree with the both of you” you the man.
Translation: I said, I don’t agree with the both of you any longer…I agree with you.
Oh boy. I didn’t mean to start a discussion on accounting principles. One lamented that organizations concentrate on profits. I simply was saying that that’s how we all get paid. Whether it is before tax or expenses is really irrelevant. Any organization that spends more than it takes in, whether profit making or non-profit, will not last and the people employed will be out of jobs. So being concerned with staying in the black is important for any organization whether good, bad or ugly in their dealings. That’s how we all stay out of sod huts.
Yeah and I have been gradually switching over to LED lights and I have a bag of used 60 watts as well as a gross of 60’s and 100’s. I buy the LEDs on sale at about $300 a time. So far so good but 100 watts are still $20 which is a little harder to swallow. The mercury filled curly cues should be outlawed in my view and I believe we will rue the day we started putting all that mercury back in the general population. The road to heck paved with good intentions again.
As far as oil, I like the price reductions but I hope we don’t end up destroying an important industry in the process and putting more power in the hands of the Saudis than they have had. I still suspect that there may be more to this than simply supply and demand but then I don’t believe for a minute Oswald acted alone.
the curly bulbs are the beta tapes of this generation
Bing, I hope you don’t have any mercury amalgam fillings in your teeth…
;-]
I don’t believe for a minute Oswald acted alone.
He certainly didn’t die alone. His lasting, stomach wrentching pose is etched in everyone’s (old ones) memory. But I will have to admit that the thought what did happen at the hands of whomever, did over time have a big impact on the sale of SUVs (reinforced SUVs). I think this element of security has a lot to do with the sale of these vehicle types regardless of the price of gasoline. But, lower priced gas is a good argument for buying a safer, bigger more enclosed car…if Oswald types are one of your fears. Even if it’s just some one throwing an apple at you at high speed, it’s one reason I use to dis convertibles.
Bing, I hope you don’t have any mercury amalgam fillings in your teeth… Good one ;-0
Fortunately, no need for amalgam anymore for we “olderfarders”. “Plastic” fillings are life time for us now.
the curly bulbs are the beta tapes of this generation Ha. Ha.
Still got my amalgam fillings, though a few molars upgraded to gold crowns, no cars with metal bumpers, all plastic now like fillings?
Yesterday, I paid $1.69/gallon at my local Costco.
This is satisfying for the time being, but we shouldn’t get too used to these prices–especially if this is all just part of a ploy by the Saudis to manipulate markets long-term for their own benefit.
With all the enthusiasm over low gas prices, something important is being lost. OPEC is ramping up production in an attempt to drive out non-conventional producers, and to keep the world on the “petroleum standard,” so to speak. THAT means, that without “frack, baby, frack,”:
So, before too many crocodile tears get shed against domestic energy production, sit back and think what we got for that investment–both here and worldwide. Conservation, alone, would NOT have gotten us here, because there would be no credible threat of abandoning petroleum for alternate energy sources. THAT required innovation re: energy extraction!
Any organization that spends more than it takes in, whether profit making or non-profit, will not last and the people employed will be out of jobs.
A lot of companies operate that way…especially start-ups. I know one entrepreneur who has started 4 different software startups and had never made a profit when he owned and ran the company. His sole interest is to run the business until it get’s bought. Then he makes a profit. But he had no goal of making a profit while he owned it.
Many software companies these days are not looking to be profitable. Just get a nitch in a certain segment so they can get bought out by someone like Oracle or Microsoft. Oracle buys 10-15 companies a year. Sometimes to absorb the technology…other times to squash the technology.
When GM started the Saturn division they knew it wasn’t going to be profitable for at least 5 years…maybe 10.
These low oil prices will reduce drilling in the US. But as soon as prices go up, drilling will ramp back up.