Gas prices dip; SUV, truck sales soar

Interesting comments.

Yes…People have short memories. Gas is not the only extra cost of an SUV. they cost more in many other ways. Tires wear out faster and cost more. Four wheel drives are more complicated and more can go wrong. Repairs can often cost more. Plus lower MPG means more air pollution and by consuming more fuel it contributes to high costs down the road…most people don’t even care or think about these factors.

Didn’t Don Imus call the SUV the Saudi Utility Vehicle.

Cavell…Are you suggesting that once Russia defaults on its loans the oil prices will go right back up. Lets hope this take a long time. LOL.

^Uh, actually…

“Four wheel drives are more complicated and more can go wrong.”
(Both small cars and large cars can come equipped with one or two driven axles. See Subaru for copious examples of the former.)

“Repairs can often cost more.”
(Labor is the largest part of the repair bill, and is generally less for body-on-frame vehicles with longitudinally-mounted engines–everything isn’t shoehorned under the hood! On top of which, BOF vehicles exhibit greater durability, as evidenced by median ages of vehicles–GM and Ford 1/2 ton (and up) trucks ALWAYS clean up these honors.)

“Plus lower MPG means more air pollution”
(Not really. ANY modern vehicle in good running condition outputs miniscule quantities of CO, NO(x) and HCs. CO2, while an agent of climate change, is not strictly speaking a pollutant (i.e. something directly hazardous or noxious in trace quantities).)

I drive a F150 for landscaping purposes (plus as a second vehicle to my Cobalt), and the ONLY way my truck is expensive is in fuel. Repair, insurance, depreciation…or ANY other cost metric…the truck wins hands-down over all other four-wheeled options. I drive a sedan due to wanting to seat 3+ comfortably…plus a vestigial eco conscience…but I do not pretend the saved fuel could ever fiscally justify the purchase!

Paid $1.99 tonight. Not that I don’t like filling my tank for $10 but now I’m getting a little concerned about a collapse. When people can’t make any money, they stop producing.

My SUVS over the years have always been more expensive to run, even the car based models. Though the repairs have been minimal out to 150k and 200k, it has more to do with the brand and the care I give it. The repair costs between an SUV in general that you use for towing, off roading and carrying heavy loads cannot really be equated to a compact you use for commuting. Harder use will always result in highe operating costs either by repairs or the added cost to buy vehicles made for the task. Either way, they cost more money if you use them as intended. Fuel, with few exceptions is more in SUVS v compacts.

As far as tires are concerned, AWD and RWD to 4 wd vehicles have ALWAYS without exception, been easier on tires then even fwd compacts. Still, the Overall cost isn’t much different as just one set of 265-70-17 tires cost twice as much as a set of cookie cutter compact tires.

“Have they been to a grocery store lately. Many items are at 100% inflation! Please explain this.”

Well, none of my grocery items have increased by 100%, but the rate of inflation for food items definitely exceeds the overall rate of inflation. As to why, here is my take on it, to which I’m sure that others can add more information:

Years ago, most of us accepted that we wouldn’t get things like strawberries, lettuce, and melons in the winter. Nowadays, produce departments are full of things that are “out-of-season” for our own geographic area, and–obviously–those out of season produce items are transported very long distances.

For decades, we have been used to produce that comes from California’s Imperial Valley, but nowadays we also have abundant supplies of fruit, berries, & vegetables from South America, Israel, and North Africa, greenhouse-grown peppers from The Netherlands, Israel, and Canada, and all manner of exotic produce from all over the globe. The stuff from California is still mostly transported by truck, but the items from overseas are flown in–at high cost.

The reduction in fuel prices has already had a positive effect on the price of produce that is transported by truck, but anything transported by air is always going to come at a premium price, and people have demonstrated that they want those goods–even with a stiff price penalty.

Then, you have to consider that the increasing affluence in Second World and Third World countries has led to the demand from those areas for food items that they need or want. The planes that transport food to us from overseas also transport food from our country to China, where there is much more disposable income than previously. So, the supply of available food for American consumers is actually reduced by this overseas demand, and the usual law of supply & demand then increases our prices for food.

Then, we have the increased demand for convenience foods that are processed before we get them. The cost of processing adds a huge percentage to the cost for consumers. On a side note, I think that we may have reached the tipping point with convenience foods, now that some people are buying hard-boiled eggs from the supermarket. Apparently there are a lot of folks nowadays who–literally–don’t know how to boil water, and that lack of “skill” comes at a price. (If many people no longer know how to boil water, there is little hope for us, I think!)

Just recently, the availability of eggs has decreased, and the price–naturally–has increased. This is the result of California’s new regulations mandating much more space per chicken in hen houses. I won’t get into the moral and ethical principles driving this new reality, but it has definitely led to higher egg prices.

The ways that I keep my food costs as low as possible are…

Belonging to a CSA (Community-Sponsored Agriculture) enterprise during the summer.
This way, instead of buying produce that has been transported hundreds–or perhaps thousands–of miles, I am getting incredibly fresh produce that is grown less than 10 miles from my home, and that is cheaper than the stuff in the stores. The farm from which I get most of my summer produce is a family farm that has been in existence since 1743, and I am proud to help them continue their farming today.

Supplementing my CSA produce with home-grown produce.
I can never seem to get enough tomatoes, and since Jersey tomatoes are still the best that you can buy, growing my own gives me much more of these really tasty treats. I also grow my own string beans, peppers, zucchini, pears, nectarines, and some herbs. And, by giving my excess home harvests to my neighbors, I make a lot of other people happy. One of those neighbors is so happy with my fruit & veggie gifts that he plows my driveway in the winter–gratis!

Joining a “warehouse club”–like Costco
The business model of these clubs is to make their profit from the membership fees, and as a result, their prices are about as low as you can go. For instance, the blueberries that I have been buying from them recently are 20% cheaper than those in the supermarkets. Their prices on chicken, fish, and red meats are also substantially lower than what I would have to pay in a supermarket–in addition to being of higher quality, generally speaking.

Avoiding convenience foods, and making as much as possible from scratch.
I couldn’t do this as much during my working years, but now that I am retired, I have the time for cooking from scratch, which saves an incredible amount of money, as compared to buying convenience foods. It is also far healthier, as I can control the amount of salt & fat, and I don’t need to use the chemical preservatives that commercial food producers rely on.

So…while there are factors like fuel costs and foreign competition for our food supply that we can’t control, there are definitely factors that are under our control. To a very great extent, we are our own enemy, but you can reduce that factor significantly if you take certain steps, such as I outlined above.

@VDCDriver All excellent points! We have a Costco membership and save that many times over during the year. When shopping for apples, we have a choice between those from the US or Chile, or New Zealand since apples are not transported by air. We basically go on price. Cheese is another matter; Gouda and Edam is still best imported from Holland, even though the price is higher. Shrimp from Thailand (farmed) has caused a near collapse of the Gulf Coast shrimp fishing industry.

On a recent European holiday, I had a real eye opener. When touring a flower operation in Holland, I was told that world’s three largest exporters of agricultural products are, in that order: The USA, France and …The Netherlands. That tiny country is a huge supplier to the European Union and well as offshore markets. The least expensive cheese in France is Dutch Gouda and the least expensive beer there is Heineken imported as well from The Netherlands.

The French export figures include all manner of wine and perfume, which is really an agricultural products.

So, we buy New Zealand spring lamb and another host of imported foods, since sea transport is really not expensive. From an environmental point of view the New Zealand Lamb Association proved that a pound of lamb raised in England for that market generates twice the CO2 compared to grass fed New Zealand lamb, including the long sea voyage.

Mean Joe,

I am not sure what you are trying to defend.

Are you trying to convince everyone that getting better fuel economy does not help the environment with less air pollution? It is so small it does not matter? Really!!! Are you sure want to say this? 15 mpg vs. 26mpg does not matter? If there were only a few hundred cars/trucks in the world that may make practical sense. The spirit of my comment was also directed at the overall environment although not specifically worded as such.

Aren’t SUV’s by definition 4WD or AWD? (I am happy to be corrected) I know you understand that 4 wheel drives have more moving parts and require additional maintenance. Therefore potentially more to go wrong and more expenses. If something does not exist…well most everyone gets it.

For someone who needs a truck, a 2 wheel drive option is just much more economical overall. If you need 4WD then you need it. That is another story.

For the previous stated reasons I would never consider buying an AWD car like a Subaru (It is like an SUV but much lighter & smaller), unless I absolutely NEEDED AWD. I don’t and most don’t(that is also another story.) They are also 400lbs heavier than something comparable in 2 wheel drive. This also ties back to better fuel economy less wear and tear on things like tires, brakes, etc.

You are RIGHT that a well maintain Truck/SUV can last very long and working in the engine compartment is generally much easier.
I am done!

@nbpt100‌

no . . . SUVs are not by definition 4x4 or awd

There are plenty of Ford exploders out there that are strictly rear wheel drive

Not to mention there are plenty of car based SUVs which are strictly front wheel drive

I’m just curious where you got your “definition” of what an SUV is . . . !

Are you trying to convince everyone that getting better fuel economy does not help the environment with less air pollution? It is so small it does not matter? Really!!!!

Yup!

A modern, gas-powered engine outputs less than 5% of the pollution of a non-pollution-controlled gas engine (such as a lawn mower or 1960’s era auto), in many cases MUCH less. A vehicle labeled ULEV or better (when warmed up) can exhaust air cleaner than the air it takes in.

As a result of all of the above, the limiting factor re: “how clean air is” is generally diesel exhaust and/or factory/power plant exhaust, NOT gasoline emissions of any kind. To the (minimal) extent gasoline emissions remain vexing, it is a combination of non-auto sources, out-of-tune autos, and spilled fuel that is the issue, NOT a well-running modern car.

Besides all of that, air anywhere in the USA is squeaky clean by comparison to any time and place post-industrial-revolution! MUCH cleaner than cesspools like Paris and London. :wink: In my hometown of Pittsburgh, PA, ALL the stone buildings were quickly soot-stained until the early 80’s; all buildings cleaned afterwards exhibit virtually NO soot staining. Based on both that and anecdotal accounts from folks 1.5+ generations older (street lights on at 2PM, take an extra white shirt to work, don’t hang clothes to dry on certain days)…I’d wager our air is an order of magnitude cleaner, possibly two.

Folks today really have no concept of what dirty air even is!

@meanjoe75fan‌

“Folks today really have no concept of what dirty air even is!”

You may want to rethink that statement

Because the Chinese DEFINITELY know what dirty air is

Yup

You only forgot the most populous country on the planet

A small oversight, if I may so so . . .

^Well, in my defense, I did specifically contrast the USA with Europe…developing world naturally be even worse than that.

My dad grew up in Swissvale (mill town near Pittsburgh) in the 50s, and recently visited Beijing…he said it was about as dirty as home used to be, esp. stuff like a layer of ash+dust settling on parked cars overnight.

And that was the 50s, when the war had been won. I’ve no idea how dirty the air was back in the 40s, with the mills going at full “win the war” output, but it stands to reason it was even worse!

db…I am happy to be corrected! UR right about 2 wheel drive Explorers. I don’t know where I specifically got my definition. I am sure you can find a variety definitions with out looking too hard. I live in the North were it snows and we have harsh winters. Most all SUV’s on the road around me are 4 or All Wheel drive. Thank you for pointing out this fine distinct factoid.

The difference between a gas powered car and a lawn mower"…is the shear numbers of them operating at any one time. Automobiles are one of the biggest polluters of our environment…lawn mowers aren’t. Now, if you want just stick one lawn mower in an enclosed environment vs one car…true.

My goodness my 20 HP Sears riding mower will gas you in short order in a semi enclosed structure.Pollution aint what she used to be.CO2 is actually fertilizer or a nutrient for plants.
It is my considered opinion that internal combustion engines are as clean now as economically feasible,the law of diminishing returns has reared its ugly head.

Kev, they can get cleaner…they can be eliminated if batteries become good enough. They can also run on propane and burn cleaner then they do now. There are lots of things we can do.

@dagosa it appears you are missing the elephant in the bedroom

http://www.ec.gc.ca/doc/media/m_124/brochure/BR_c1_eng.htm

Then why is EPA so insistent on regulating small engines? Take a look at all the numbers on the engine. It is the EPA info and the reason you can’t adjust the carbs anymore. From the chart I suppose next they’ll want me to shut the heat off in the winter.

“Then why is EPA so insistent on regulating small engines?”

To give 200 more bureaucrats a job?

Deleted–temporarily unable to find corroborating source.

@meanjoe75fan‌

True, for global ( mathematically speaking) portion levels.
. My comment was…automobiles are one of the biggest polluters( which it is) in response to why LAWN MOWERS were compared to cars. “One of” does not mean the biggest. But, I thank you for bringing up the obvious…why manufacturing is so adamant about deregulation.

Still, urban areas where most people live and where it is most important 75% of the pollution n is caused by AUTOMOBILES. Google any source and you come out with similar numbers as far as cars and pollution.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/percentage-of-air-pollution-due-to-cars.htm

Small engines do polute!!!
But, you look at the big fish first. Automobiles. Transportation, industry make small engine pale in existence to overall polution levels. Where they do matter though, is local and acute polution.