I’d just catch some in the sample container as the oil is draining out.
Well, I would say that 6 years and 70,000 miles qualifies as “severe service” and a 7,500 mile interval would not be appropriate. According to Hyundai’s website (and your friend’s owners manual) this car should have had 3,000 mile oil changes. The dealer should have encouraged him to come in every 3,000 miles. I would say your friends engine damage was caused by overly extended OCI’s and possibly low oil levels (as it was likely starting to consume oil after a few years).
My dealer does free oil changes as well and would love for me to come in every 3,750 miles to sell me more stuff. Interestingly Mazda’s “severe service” interval for my car is 5,000 miles and the “normal service” interval is 7,500 miles. I drive 35 to 40 thousand miles per year of mostly highway miles so I would say my driving is “normal” not “severe”.
I might be mistaken about exact OCI that guy used, but it was looking on high side to me, especially considering his relatively low annual drive
it was for a first time in many years I’ve seen such a severe damage to the engine…
Hyundai has issued recalls for crankshaft failures, I wouldn’t rule out defects as cause of his engine failure unless you inspected the engine and found sludge.
I played “bystander” role there, really.
Dipstick had some varnish, so I would not rule out it might be a combination of two factors
It is neither corrupt nor a conflict of interest. The automotive industry as a whole has cultivated the oil change as a perennial loss-leader and an unknowing public refuses to pay a fair price for such a service. So the idea of a low priced oil change packaged with a “27-point” inspection has become standard procedure and has been for as long as I’ve been in this business. I don’t personally like it, but it certainly falls short of corrupt, by any definition.
Given that doing an oil change service results in a net loss for the business, I fail to see how recommending them at 6 month intervals is a conflict of interest.
Nope. It reduces the per-mile maintenance cost. Fewer visits to the shop and less dollars spent.
Take for example the car that came in last week with the washers not working. I had to give that person a bill for $30 to fill the washer fluid. You object to recommending an oil change before it’s due and instead suggest a maintenance inspection. I can’t in good conscience do that. What if I were your mother’s mechanic? I would have her come in for a maintenance checkup for which I have to charge her $49, and then tell her to come back next month when her oil change is due and charge her $40 for that? When she can get the $40 oil change with the maintenance checkup included in that price?
I will agree that package pricing like that can be distasteful, but I can’t change the entire industry and I need to remain somewhat competitive.
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Halfway in between what the mechanic says and Toyota says seems a reasonable compromise.
I would suggest that you halve (at least) the recommendation from Toyota.
The roadside is littered with factory recommendations that are ill advised. Why do they make those recommendations then you say? To promote the idea that the vehicle needs less maintenance. It’s a marketing ploy and they all do it.
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Toyota used to use a 5,000 mile interval but switched to 10,000 miles in late 2009, after my mom took delivery of her 2010 Prius at the end of July '09. The local indie that has been servicing her cars since 1993 has her on about a 7,500 mile interval. The shop does have a oil change special that beat’s the dealer’s pricing.
Most of the vehicles that I service have a 10,000 mile oil change interval. This means fewer visits as owners tend to skip the 5,000 mile tire rotation and inspection. This results in fewer opportunities to sell brakes and tires, if tires or brake replacement is needed between services owners sometimes chose a shop that is more convenient.
One out of five owners aren’t punctual with their oil change schedule, they come in at between 11,000 and 15,000 miles, yet no oil related failures on synthetic oil vehicles.
There is mistrust toward manufactures with some people about maintenance, Toyota has provided numerous warranty extensions for component failures considered to be abnormal. There are no problems with lubrication, if there was Toyota would have a support program to correct the problem.
If you were talking about conventional oil, I’d accept that lying to your customers in this context might be saving them money, but not with the high cost of synthetic oil.
Rationalizing dishonesty by saying “the rest of the industry does it” makes you a follower. I see this as an opportunity to lead and innovate, perhaps by creating a new competitive maintenance model that is more appealing than risking being caught in a lie.
When I get phone calls at work from scammers, I’ve often said, “you should find an honest way to make a living.” I never thought I’d be saying that to you.
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You are nicer than I am.
I just tell them to go f*** themselves.
+1
However, I would add that–IMHO–the oil change schedule that you follow should be linked to your plans for the vehicle. If the OP is one of the people who leases a vehicle, or who trades it in every 3-5 years, following the mfr’s extended maintenance schedules will be unlikely to produce a problem for the OP.
On the other hand, if you are one of the people–like me–who keeps his vehicles for ~10 years (or more), paying for one extra oil change per year is pretty cheap assurance of long, trouble-free like from your engine. I am taking my car in for an oil change in two days, and that will be at the 5 month/4,000 mile mark since the previous oil change.
Because I do much more short-trip driving than I did when I was a working guy, the miles add-up much more slowly than they used to, and that is not good for the engine–hence changing the oil every 5 months.
I think the price of synthetic oil is coming down. I bought 0W-20 full synthetic oil that meets the specifications for my Toyota Sienna for $2.79 a quart.I bought a quart to carry in the Sienna in case I needed to add a quart between changes. I never used the quart. When I sold the 2011 Sienna to my son last September, I transferred the license and registration, the insurance and the $2.79 quart of RK oil from the Rural King store to the 2017 Sienna that I bought.
Just recently I was in the Rural King store and found Peak 10W-30 full synthetic oil on sale for $1.83 a quart. I bought a.quart to have on hand for my lawn mower engine.
If I still did my own oil changes, I would probably buy this RK oil and maybe change at 7500 miles. However, I just follow the owner’s manual and have the oil changed about 10,000 miles.
My 2016 Forester has the same issue. Except it is not the local mechanic or the local dealer saying I need to change it based on time, but the actual owner’s manual. 8,600 miles and it has had four synthetic oil changes. I’d skip one every year, but that car has a known oil consumption flaw and I may need to use the warranty at some point. $53 just for the oil change with a coupon at last visit (no tire rotations since I have winter tires I have mounted elsewhere).
I see nothing wrong with the inexpensive oil change/multi-point inspection referred to by asemaster.
Given the fact that the vast majority of people never check (or have checked…) anything under the car or under the hood I look at it as heading off potential problems before they occur.
Do the inexpensive oil change only and ignore the transmission dipstick which shows low fluid and guess who will get blamed a few weeks later when the transmission expires?
As a matter of fact, this very scenario has been posted on this board multiple times. “Well, they changed my oil or whatever so shouldn’t they have noticed…”…yada, yada, yada.
Recently someone posted about a Benz ball joint breaking. If regular chassis inspections had been performed then odds are that would have never happened assuming the car owner did not blow off a recommended fix. And yes, I’ve seen complaints (many times…) about posters complaining that mechanics are just on a fishing expedition to separate the car owner from their pocketbook while going over a car during regular maintenance.
So…the mechanic is damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.
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I too see nothing wrong with the recommendation itself, as long as it comes with an honest explanation and not a deliberate deception.
How is a mechanic who makes this recommendation while honestly explaining the reason for it damned? What’s damning about saying to a customer, “You don’t need the oil changed every 5,000 miles, but since other things can go wrong in 7,500 or 10,000 miles, I recommend it ahead of schedule”?
Unfortunately there are way too many dealers, auto chains and even some independents who are deceptive. Companies like Sears, NTB, Midas, Firestone and a slew of others who have been charged and lost in court for these deceptive practices. Firestone and Sears have had multiple lawsuits brought against them from multiple state attorney’s and paid millions in fines.
I want a shop to inform me of.possible problems. However, I don’t want a shop to try to make more work for themselves. I had a traded with a garage for more.than 20 years. The management changed and every time one of my vehicles was brought in for an oil change, some other problem was “discovered”. I had trusted them until I was told our 4Runner needed new struts. I declined having them do the work. I did the bounce test and crawled under the vehicle to see if the struts were leaking. The struts seemed fine to me. A week later, I had a tire that was losing air, so I took the 4Runner to my independent tire shop that also does suspension work. They said the struts were o.k. The next time I had the vehicle serviced, I went to the Toyota dealership. They said that the struts were o.k. My original independent shop lost a customer. They also lost a long time employee as he is now working at the Toyota dealership. He told me the politics had changed at the independent shop so he left.
As far as oil changes go, I brought my 2011 Toyota in for an oil change at 5000 miles as specified in the owners manual. The service writer said I didn’t need to change the oil until 10,000 miles. When I questioned him, he sent me to the service manager. The service manager showed me a bulletin from Toyota that had extended the oil change to 10,000 miles from 5000 miles. I was skeptical, but decided to wait to change the oil. Three days later, I got an official letter from Toyota that superceded the manual and increased the interval to 10,000 miles. The service manager said that both engines and oil has improved over our earlier days when a 3000 mile oil change was the norm. I didn’t tell him that in my earlier days 2000 miles was the standard.
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And then a few months ago I remember having a discussion with the Acura service manager about how often to do service. I don’t remember if it was oil changes or differential, but he said to rely on the OLM and that they did much research coming up with the software program. I said I’d rather not rely on it if it meant 10,000 mile oil changes. So the dealer was suggesting less maintenance and the customer was suggesting more. Once again you just can’t lump everyone together and say they have a conflict of interest by suggesting a particular service or repair. Maybe an informed consumer.
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