From mazda to gmc terrain slt

General Discussion
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So…found a car to replace my Mazda. (Sorry, this will be kinda long to read.) 2021 GMC Terrian SLT. I’m sure there are those that will say it’s not that good of a vehicle, but it has everything I wanted (and most things I didn’t). It was a 3yr lease that got turned in in Aug with 14.5k miles on it, bought for $24k. I might put just about that many miles on it in 3 years myself, so I won’t drive it much. I typically drive about 5k miles/yr. Had it one day and found this:

Took it home and looked at it at night when it was dark to see how all the lights work. Both headlights have scratches and some fog ON THE INSIDE of the lens. Took it back to the dealer the next day and the used car manager said he can’t believe, and has no idea, how the lenses got scratches and fog on the INSIDE, but that he didn’t want me to have a problem with a car I’ve only had for one day, and he would switch the headlights out with the same model of one of the cars they have on the lot, “but let me have our service manager take a look at it.”

Service manager says he needs to take pictures both in daylight (when you can’t see the scratches and fog) and at night when it’s dark (which is when you can clearly see them) to send to GMC to see what they have to say. Problem is, it doesn’t get dark until around 8 or 8:30 and they close at 5, and I don’t think his service bay is dark enough to show the lens. He says I can’t forward the pictures on my phone to him because he has to take them with HIS phone in order to send to GMC because of their app or something. So I don’t know how we get those pictures in the dark, and I certainly don’t want to wait until the end of Sept or Oct when it gets dark earlier.

My question is: What recourse do I have if GMC denies replacing them? Of course, the extended warranty I bought doesn’t cover this problem. (Please don’t yell at me for getting the warranty. I had one with my Mazda and it helped tremendously.) Service manager, in conversation, mentions that it would cost $4500 to replace them. He said it like in passing, not making an actual point of it. He also said GMC most likely won’t approve a change, but he can’t say for sure, but since they will probably say it “doesn’t affect driving” they will deny it. I said you KNOW they won’t approve it. He said all he can do is submit the pictures. I said I would fight them on it because I didn’t just pay over $30k for headlights that have this problem and will only get worse eventually (because I had a similar problem with my old car).

You just KNOW GMC will deny this. Other than that, any advice as to what I can do or say?

Oh, forgot to mention, after it rained, I also found moisture inside the lenses in spots. Service manager said GMC says “this is normal” and won’t do anything about it. They even have a bulletin out about it that the service manager printed out for me.

What I’m thinking of doing is going to the used car manager and ask him to swap the lights out like he said he would do, while in the meantime the service manager submits the pictures to GMC. If GMC approves, they get reimbursed. If not, I still get the lights swapped out like used car manager said. To me, those scratches and fog in the headlights is the same as if they sold me a car with body scratches they didn’t fix. They might not go for it, saying I have to wait for the GMC reply, but I would press them on it. Whaddaya think??

The first 3 pictures are of the fog and scratches taken at night. The other ones are of the moisture/condensation in spots taken during the day after a rain.

headlight fog and scratches
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headlight fog and scratches 3
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headlight fog and scratches 4
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headlight condensation
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headlight condensation 2
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headlight condensation 3
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headlight condensation 4
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Me, I’d just accept that’s the way the car is configured. It wouldn’t be worth my time to make fog on the lens an issue. But if it bothers you, no harm to ask. Maybe there’s a workaround corp already knows about.

Reminds me of a recent puzzler on Best of Car Talk:

Family goes on vacation for 2 weeks. When they return they find 3-4 gallons of water on the bathroom floor, and they also notice the toilet is running, presumably the entire time they were away. They jiggle the knob on the toilet to stop it from running, then call a plumber to discover what’s causing all the water on the floor. The plumber inspects the situation and other than the toilet knob sticking sometimes , says there’s absolutely nothing wrong w/the plumbing. What has caused all the water on the floor?

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Nice going George , that really is a lot of help . Stay on topic!

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It’s an issue to me, because I know it’s going to get worse at some point in time. I had a similar problem with the headlights on my Mazda. At different times each headlight got foggy and started turning yellow. Started out just a little and over time (a year or more sometimes) grew to cover the whole lens. Not something that could be buffed out. Had to replace the whole light. Did that twice.

So I’m sure that will eventually happen to these leses. It might take one year or 5, but it will happen. And at that point I don’t want to have to pay $4500 for new headlights, when they can just swap them out now. And yes, it might happen to the new ones also, and it might not, but then there’s history of that happening and I think I’d have a case. How can they sell headlights that they know will eventually become a hazard while driving?

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What caused all the water on the floor is a sticking toilet handle that should be replaced!!!

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The plumber says there’s nothing wrong w/the plumbing, including the toilet. The sticking toilet handle just causes water to flow down the drain, not onto the floor.

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Is this a manufacturer certified used car? I ask because you’d think the original warranty is- expired by now, doesn’t transfer to next owner or doesn’t cover something like this. You also mentioned your extended warranty not covering it.

If it bothered me enough to question it, I would also be looking at the laws for used car purchases from a dealer in your state/municipality. Does your state allow for a cooling off period? The dealer may be stalling to allow this time period to expire. Then, when they claim nothing can be done about it- they will be right.

The idea he cannot receive a texted or emailed picture from you, save it to his phone and then open his special app to attach it like any other picture taken by his phone or otherwise, is highly suspicious to me and the reason I lean toward the above reason for his delay in attending to the issue.

The first time I had a dealer- was a motorcycle dealer- claim they would fix something later, they kept stalled hoping I would give up. I prevailed but not until I had a demand letter drafted after a lot of broken promises. Now I get everything in writing from the beginning. A repair order with date, notation of complaint and their proposed actions or resolution written on it. That way later, it’s not a he said, she said kind of deal.

A lot depends on the design. Some designs are pretty well sealed and others are vented so they can breathe. It may be the vented style and the vent is covered- like a mud dauber or some debris. It could be the sealed type and it has a defect. Either way, like you, I would want it fixed. Especially if the price of replacement is as high as they mentioned. That makes it a big deal to me…

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24000 for the used vehicle out of warranty + 6000 ? for the after market warranty which might be useless .

That amount would have bought something new with full warranty .

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Get a lawyer that specializes in consumer litigation. My wife would have loved handling a case like this, but she’s retired now.

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Yes, the original 3yr/36k mile warranty is not in effect anymore. They didn’t say it was a certified car, just that it was just turned in like Aug 8 and I bought it Aug 29. Someone (maybe on another post of mine) said my car has the vented kind of headlights.

I will keep on them and try to get the lights swapped out no later than the next week or 2. And I will question him about saving my pics to his phone, then attach to his app. Thank you for the advice.

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Yowza! $6000 for a warranty??? I’d never pay that. Was a little over $3k though. But like I said (somewhere) , when I bought my Mazda new I got an extended warranty - back then it cost around $2200 - and it certainly saved me a bunch of money when some things went wrong. So that’s why I got it this time.

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You say it could be a bad seal. When going over the things that were NOT covered by the ext warranty, headlight seals were not covered by the warranty…

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The condensation will likely evaporate after normal headlight use. The vehicle has been unused for a period of time while on the lot, possibly in the rain and washed several times, high humidity can cause condensation in the lamps.

There are specific warranty control applications used to submit pictures for warranty approval, did you leave the vehicle at the service department for inspection after dark?

The vehicle warranty has expired, seems the service manager is requesting for “Goodwill” warranty coverage, customer cooperation would be appreciated. How long will it take to spoil the relationship with the service manager.

Below is the service bulletin explaining condensation in headlamp assemblies.

01-08-42-001P 1…6 (nhtsa.gov)

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Assuming the warranty is expired based on time (3 years) then GMC will deny it. Why? Because they’re not obligated to repair it after 3 years and you bought it used outside of the warranty period. Why would you expect GMC to cover this? You bought the vehicle knowing it was out of the factory warranty period. I used to work for Chevrolet corporate and reviewed claims like this beyond the warranty period. We never approved goodwill claims beyond the warranty period for people that weren’t the original owner unless it was seatbelt related or a very well-known issue (90’s paint peeling for example). Don’t forget that GMC (the manufacturer) has not made one dime off you. The dealer has made some profit so it’s reasonable to ask them but GMC really has nothing to do with this. I think the dealer is using the GMC “review” process as a bit of a smokescreen. They know it won’t be approved but it’s easier for them to blame corporate. We used to tell dealers to blame us at corporate if they wanted to - it made their job easier.

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I understand your position. However, I drove the car a few times, always in the daytime, and never drove or saw it at night, when that was the only time you can see the problem with the headlights. Had we seen the condition of the headlights before purchasing, we would have had them changed and most likely not purchase it if it wasn’t done. That wasn’t the case.

And it’s not the condensation that’s the problem, at least at this point - it’s the scratches and fog on the INSIDE of the lenses. How do SCRATCHES get INSIDE the lens???

I know the service guy is blowing smoke. He’s been doing this, he said, 39 years, and he doesn’t know what GM will say??? Yeah, right. We both know it’ll be denied, which is why I’m going to equate the fogged/scratched lenses to them selling me a car that has scratches on it.

How can they justify selling me a car with headlights that have this problem, that will most likely get worse at some point, and that I’ll have to pay a ton of money to replace, when they can just, as the used car manager said, swap them with ones from another car on their lot? No skin off their nose.

If they did swap the lights, they’d have a loyal customer for as long as I owned the car. I was loyal to the Mazda dealership for over 20 years when I had it due to the great relationship I had with the head service manager. He went to bat for me and had things done that made me loyal. I would expect if the GMC dealer wants that to happen, they’d change the lights out.

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I read the bulletin. I think it’s the same one the service mgr printed out for me. Anyway, as I said in another reply, the condensation isn’t the problem at this point - the scratches and fog are.

And no, I didn’t leave the car overnight for the service mgr to take pictures. Id on’t know that he’d even come back to the shop to do that when they close at 5 and it gets dark around 8 and who knows how far he lives from the shop? Can’t see him doing that if he lives relatively far away, and would he do that even if he lived 3 miles away? I will ask him about it though.

How does “customer cooperation” come into it? How can I “cooperate” with regard to this? Spoiling the relationship would only happen if they don’t swap the lights out like the used car mgr said he’d do.

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You’re asking the dealer to pay for future business from you. Perhaps they’re not interested in making that investment?

If you were a loyal GM or dealership customer, you would have been trading in an older GM model for a newer one.

I don’t recall if you explained why, but why weren’t you looking at a newer Mazda to replace your previous one?

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I’ve never heard of car headlights getting condensation in them, let alone scratches and fog. I’ve owned 3 other cars, and have friends and family who own cars, and none of those cars’ headlights ever had condensation or scratches and fog inside them. They were hermetically sealed. Now “new technology” is causing these problems and the manufactureres are calling it normal???

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First, yes, if they want to make more money off me in the future, then swapping out of the lights is to their benefit. I’m sure their hourly rate will more than make up whatever it cost for the couple hours or so to do it. If the labor charge to swap them is $3-400, they’d make a lot more than that with me taking the car there over the years. I’m sure he quoted that $4500 to include getting new headlights, not that the labor charge alone would cost $4500. If they’re not interested in making that investment, as you say, then someone else will be making money off that “investment”.

As for your comment: “If you were a loyal GM or dealership customer, you would have been trading in an older GM model for a newer one.” - you gotta first HAVE a GMC vechicle to trade one in. So now I got one to trade someday maybe.

I was looking at ALL makes and models to replace my Mazda. I did look at Mazdas, but they didn’t have anything in my price range with my requirements, and I didn’t want new, even though I did look at them. Now if they made another wagon and I liked it, I’d probably buy it new. But as it stands, they don’t make a wagon anymore (I’ve had 2 of their wagons - the first lasted 12 or 14 years and this one lasted 20.)

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Used cars have flaws.

Will the used car manager pay the labor, 3 hours per vehicle? Will this void the warranty on the other vehicle? Wrong headlamps installed.

You didn’t by a new vehicle and they aren’t expecting you to buy several more. How many Mazdas did you buy? Did you trade in a late model Mazda when you purchased the GMC?

Someone else can take the pictures, the shop foreman should be qualified, the service writer, a service technician, etc. They only need pictures of the water, scratches are not a manufacture’s defect. Etching might possibly be a defect.