An ASE master certification won’t guarantee that a man is a good mechanic but it would seem to indicate a good knowledge of auto repair. The tests are much tougher than ACTs, etc.
I don’t have a problem with ASEs if it makes them feel good about themselves. I do have a problem with customers seeing an ASE emblem and being led to believe that because that sign is hanging there this means they’re getting a competent and honest repair.
A long time tech wrote a very lengthy story about the ins and outs of auto repair. The part about the ASE has been cut and pasted below and I fully agree with him.
Lacking knowledge of modern automobiles can really open you up to rip off artists. ASE certification does not mean you have competent techs, although it is a step in the right direction. I passed the heavy duty truck brake tests and I had no idea how the systems even worked and had never worked on one. I also passed the transmission tests with little knowledge or experience on transmissions. The tests are generally too easy and they give no indication of how honest the mechanic is.
OK4450,what piece of paper do you respect, just the one that has the amount of money you made that week? Is this good enough to show competeancy? Is it how many come backs you don’t have or how many times you don’t get stumped? Is a guy ever allowed to need help?
ASE’s are out and brand certification is out, it seems that the only paper that matters is the paycheck. If those numbers are good then you must be good.
I was trying to get a feel of what the climate would be when I entered the workforce with certification in hand. Obviously most of you do not think much of someone that tried to get off on the right foot.
Um, excuse me. The title of this thread is “For consumers-Your preferred technician.” That certification might mean something to an employer, even though it might mean little to a CONSUMER.
If you want to enter the workforce in this particular profession, my advice is to earn a workforce certificate or associate’s degree from a community college with an automotive technician program. They will help place you in a job, if they are able. A lot of these jobs are at dealerships, and the managers of those dealerships will probably send you for specialized training from the manufacturer.
You may be asking how I know such things without having ever worked in the industry. The answer is that I have worked at a community college that trains automotive technicians and does a good job of maintaining contacts with hiring managers in the profession.
Instead of asking consumers for job advice, go to a prospective employer, directly, in person, and ask the hiring manager what he or she looks for. Asking anyone else is a waste of your time.
DfromSD–If you pass just one test, you’ll be “ASE Certified”, but only in that one area. You need A1-A8 to become a “Master Automobile Technician”.
You wouldn’t believe how easy it is to pass the basic car/light truck tests (A1-A8), EdNC878991. If you pass just one test, you’ll be “ASE Certified”, but only in that one area. You need A1-A8 to become a "Master Automobile Technician. You just get the textbooks they use in trade schools , study up for a couple months, & pass the tests. The L1 test, Advanced Engine Performance, is a little harder, but still comes nowhere near approaching real-word scenario.
EdNC878991–Your situation seems unique as far as the way people get into the hands on aspect of auto repair. I agree that in your personal scenario it was a good idea to get your A1-A8. To get your foot in the door. Besides situations like your’s & besides the fact that ASE certifications are good PR for the shop in question, I really feel they are window dressing. Good luck to you in your future.
I don’t have a problem with the ASE itself. What I have a problem with (and friends have been through the same) is being promised something for certification and those promises not being delivered when the bill comes due.
An employer promised me 50% commission if I attained Master Tech status under Subaru’s program. Several years and some schools later that was attained, followed by telling me that did not need that 50% because I was making enough. So, job search on and 5 months later I was working for Nissan when a friend there quit and moved out of state.
I have a problem with the idea that an ASE shoulder patch equates to competency and more importantly, honesty.
Most of my knowledge has been picked up by hands-on, service schools, reading manuals and whatnot, trading tips and war stories with other techs, etc. As far as I know, ASE has never taught one single thing to anybody.
I’ve also taken night classes in electronics several times on my own time and my own dime.
These courses had zero to do with automobiles but I did it to gain a working knowledge of how electronics worked; from resistors to ICs to transformers and even a week or two of vacuum tube operation.
To save a little length on the post I’ll start another about a shop near me that is ASE certified.
The shop near me is an import shop that is well-established. (over 3 decades) The owner is an ASE Master Tech and he has 2 employees who are also ASE but are not MT status.
My nickname for this guy is Four Hundred Dollar XXXX for the simple fact that every car that rolls through the door seems to need a 400 dollar repair. I’ve often wound up looking over and repairing a number of vehicles where customers balked at the 400 and up diagnosis.
Here’s some examples.
Old Audi barely running. Diagnosis was a 400 and up fuel inj. problem. Cause? Contact points closed up; 5 minute fix.
Older BMW idling very rough. Diagnosis was a 400 and up FI problem. Cause? CO off just slightly and a tweak of the screw cured that. (CIS)
Nissan Maxima running rough. Diagnosis of failing fuel pump. Cause? One bad plug wire.
Nissan Altima no cold A/C. Diagnosis of a bad compressor. Cause? Compressor plug knocked loose.
Subaru with automatic trans won’t move. Diagnosis of bad transmission. Cause? These guys had botched the reinstallation of the engine after a head gasket job by not verifying the torque converter was fully seated on 3 sets of splines. (They hit 2 sets). After some miles there was a scrape and grinding sound followed by coasting to the side of the road. Removal of the transmission showed this error had peeled the entire center out of the flexplate.
That’s just some examples that I personally took care of. How many others there are I have no idea.
This guy also has a huge lot that he shares with a wrecker service who stores cars there but has no office present. So when FHDXXXX needs a part and a free part can be stolen off of an impound vehicle he has at it and increases the profit margin even more. Who is stealing these parts? According to FHDXXXX it’s a homeless guy who lives in a junk car on the lot.
Pretty conscientious homeless person who will not only take a good part off, BUT reinstall a junk part back into place because that’s exactly what happens. However, they never retighten any nuts and bolts during the reinstall.
After a car wreck in my Subaru I went to the hospital for a few days. A week late when I found out my Subie was in that lot I went to get it and found out they had already been pirating parts off off of it even though their business has nothing to do with the wrecker service. To add more irony, one of the parts they sold was a near new alternator and it was sold to a Methodist minister whom I know. We compared notes, and voila.
This guy also bought a late model (2 years old) Chevy van from the Chevy dealer, complained about an oil leak, and the dealer bought the van back. Later on it was discovered this late model engine had been pulled and an aged, high miles engine substituted in its place. Nothing could ever be proven though.
I’m sure the ASE sign and shoulder patches inspire confidence among the customers though.
I have found the engine performance and advanced engine performance modules of the ASE program to be most informative. They were much more current than the engine performance classes given at my Community College (which was still giving equal time to points and carbs). These two sections will really help a drivability tech. Take a look at the study guide and see if you can answer all the practice questions.I did have to buy the study guide for L2 Advanced Engine Performance so I know it will be hard for others to review the questions. I could post some if there is interest, they are not at all so easy. I simply had an interest in better OBDII diagnostic skills as drivability was not my line with GM, and it like most else is handled different with BMW. For one, not as many oddball drivability issues with BMW. Understanding BMW TSB’s is much harder than understanding GM TSB’s, but drivability components and engine management techniques are much better with BMW than GM,so it is a trade off.
I have asked my Community College to start a dedicated OBDII class but you know how school administrators are when a student points out gaps in the plan.
There was a time that “Step Students” as BMW called them were 99% guaranteed a job at a BMW Dealer (with the Dealer picking up the 30k training costs). This unwritten policy ended around 2006 (with the recession.)
OK4450, I think where you and I are furthest apart is the fact that I view ASE training material as revelant and testing as proof that you remember what you read. What you learn by studying the prep material and preparing yourself for the tests can be applied directly to your job as a technican.
To reiterate, I don’t have a problem with the ASE if that’s what someone wants to do. Matter of fact, when I passed some of my first ASE exams I was pretty proud of it too. Over time the luster faded and it became apparent to me the ASE was more of a feel-good and perception thing.
The ASE may (or even may not) reveal whether customer John Doe is getting a knowledgeable repair or not. It will not reveal if John Doe is getting an honest one at all.
Funny story about another ASE tech. This guy held ASEs in 4 or 5 areas and was a Subaru Master Tech at a large multi-line dealer I went to work for. He had a Subaru manual trans on the bench. This car had been traded in by a customer who did not want to fix it so the Used Car Dept. did. The 3/4 synchronizer parts had been on backorder for a month or so and the guy was grumbing about the trans being in the way.
About a month after I went to work there he made the comment one day that the final parts had come in and he could be rid of it. I was doing bench work about 15 feet away and noticed something funny as he was about to mate the 2 case halves. I yelled at him to stop and when I walked down there one could easily see that about 20% of the teeth were missing from the mainshaft 3rd gear.
His reaction was Oh Sxxx, how did I miss that? Very odd because those gears had to be removed and reinstalled during the repair process.
His question to me was, what do you think? Put it together as is or not? My answer was an emphatic no way, order a 3/4 gear set.
He did not. He reassembled that trans as is and gave it back to the Used Car Dept after driving it and pronouncing it fine.
The issue there is that some salesman is going to sell this car to someone with both salesman and buyer being oblivous to a looming potential problem.
In another case some years ago my sister who lives elsewhere had an engine overhaul done on her Buick by an ASE shop. She got it back with a perpetual oil drip. After several trips back they would not do anything about it and claimed the guy who did the overhaul did not work there anymore so they were not responsible.
The cause of the oil drip as I discovered later? They broke the timing chain cover and covered the crack with a full tube of sticky Permatex. After a few days the Permatex started cracking off and it started puking oil.
These are the kind of issues I have with some ASE people and why I say that an ASE sign or patch is not an indication of competency or honesty. It can be an aid of sorts though.
I totally agree with ok4450. ASE’s dont mean that you are any better than the other guy. Same thing with that paycheck either. My example is when I went to work for an Oldsmobile,GMC,Isuzu dealer. I was hired as their only trans tech. I was to replace the old trans tech who was retiring in 2-3 months. Until he retired they had me doing heavy engine and electrical. There was only one person in the shop who held an ASE credential. He was a heavy engine guy who left a week after I started. This guy was fast, real fast. All the service writers raved about him how fast he could do a crank kit on 3.8 liter engine. We were doing tons of these because in the later part of the 80’s we were spinning rod bearings relentlessly. Well, I just didnt hammer them out as fast as he did. I was well under book time, and thats WARRANTY book time which we all know is much less than customer pay book time. Well when this fast ASE guy with the impressive pay checks left to go to another dealer someone had to handle his come backs, and boy did he have some come backs. I got one or two of them a week. Some of them I had to re-do the crank kits, some had loose bolts, missing bolts, bolts that he had broken during re-assembly, oil leaks and various noises. One had to have a new short block assy installed after it came back with 2 spun rod bearings- reason: He failed to torque the pickup screen bolts, they worked their way loose and starved the engine of oil. Every time one of his comebacks came in I made it a point to go to the service aisle to personally pickup the repair order from the service writers. I would look at the R.O. say “Man, another comeback, how many is that? what do you think of your guy now?” The raves quickly stopped.
None of the guys I worked with held ASE’s. I, myself never cracked open an ASE book, dont know what they look like and wouldnt recognize one if it was two feet in front of me. I worked with a lot of top notch techs. In the real world, that ASE cert wont affect a tech’s pay. Every one I know of who has them doesnt make any more and those who dont hold any are not being promised any more if they DO take the tests. I personally know techs who are ASE certified who I wouldnt let touch my lawn mower let alone my car.
transman
If you want to see what it takes to be a really good mechanic, I suggest this book: http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1295014116&sr=8-1
The issue about ASE’s becomes a problem when having them is seen as a disadvantage or indication of incompetancy rather than being simply neutral.It almost seems that with some of you guys a mechanic should not let it be known he has ASE certs, you can have your certs. and also be competant.
When you work your way up to Service Manager, you will be proud to wear your Master ASE ring.
You will take more pride in your profession and this will be noticed by your customers, employer, fellow employees and most important, your family.
Reading publications as Motor Age, Motor Service,Transmission Digest, Undercar Digest and other material will prepare you for your tests. You will also learn modern technics and understand modern vehicles. Also read paper catalogs from NAPA, as they have good information at the beginning or end of the catalogs.
These are reasons to achieve your Master ASE status as I have. If you don’t understand an automatic transmission…tear one down and ask questions.I am a lousy test taker, but I was determined to pass the tests.
I take pride in my work and honesty is everything. I always have someone asking me to work for them. Master ASE status has alot to do with who YOU want to work for.
I do agree with Whitey. An Associate Degree will also boost you income and choices
oldschool mentioned the L2 advanced engine performance test. Actually the L2 test is the “ELECTRONIC DIESEL ENGINE DIAGNOSIS SPECIALIST TEST” L1 is the advanced engine performance test. Her is the free study guide:
http://www.ase.com/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm?ContentID=7270
And here is the “Composite Vehicle Type 3 Reference Booklet”
The “Composite Vehicle Type 3 Reference Booklet” is reference material you actually refer to while taking the last 1/3 of the L1 Advanced Engine Performance Test. I had said earlier I felt the ASE’s were window dressing, but the L1 test is closer to real world.
Karl, I posted a thread about a year ago with the description of the “composite vehicle” and I asked if others thought it to be a good training aid. Perhaps because it was something I presented the idea was rejected.
L1 sounds better than L2 and the info is great in the L1 prep book.
My “official test prep book” for L1 is about 5 times the size of the free version, but the free gets the idea accross.
I took the L1 test last year & failed it. I had no idea there was a “repair manual” used during the test that you could download months before the test bone up on. 2’s the charm, I hope, this spring. You have to refer to the “repair manual” as you take the test, like you refer to a manual at the shop. Plus you only get so much time, so it somewhat approaches real world.
The ASE people really did a good job with the way they present all involved with the L1 test, espically the composite vehicle. I wish they applied the same mindset towards the other certs.